When brainstorming ideas this past week for my next article, I took it upon my Twitter followers to let me know what they wanted to hear. After getting many good suggestions, here is one that I have been pondering:
from @tricerapops: There’s a genuine disconnect between fans/alums & students in terms of how each group takes a loss. Can you explore that?
First of all, I think this is a fantastic question, so I’m glad it was posed to me. I agree that there is a disconnect among fans/alums and students in how they react to losses, and more specifically, general fans & alums tend to be more critical and more harsh on the team than current students are, (**IMPORTANT NOTE** I realize not ALL fans react exactly the same, so if you are an outlier here, don’t get mad at me. You’re special. Thanks) and generally the students look ahead with a more positive outlook.
I think the first and most obvious reason for this is that current students live within the Hype Bubble. Discussion about Notre Dame sports takes place 24/7 on campus, and nobody wants to badmouth their own team with 8,000 people around them that most likely want to hear good things. And even the few voices that are negative (okay, admittedly, often realistic) tend to be drowned out by the overwhelming positivity on campus. Which, in my opinion, is a good thing. I think that the student body is supposed to be the steadfast, rock-solid, never-wavering section of support for the university and its athletic teams. When everyone else is down on them, our teams should know that they have the support of their classmates. Which brings me to point number two:
The athletes are indeed our classmates. Notre Dame, as it relates to athletics, is unique for several reasons: that it is a small university, having an undergraduate enrollment of around 8,000 students, which is small enough where you know a majority of students on campus, or at least see a large percentage of their faces, including the athletes. They live in the dorms with you, they eat at the dining hall with you, and you see them hanging out on the quad or in Lafortune Student Center like you would anybody else; and second, athletes at Notre Dame actually attend classes: So not a day goes by where you don’t see, or talk to, an athlete. More than just seeing them, you get to know the guys and girls personally, hang out with them, see all of the hard work that they put in each day. Because of this they are not just a jersey number or someone to root for on a team, but they are your immediate friends. And certainly you don’t put down your friends after a tough loss (even if we are really fuming inside and want nothing more than to scream HOLD ON TO THE **** BALL!) but instead move on to the next one and hope for the best.
General fans and alumni don’t have those factors playing into their opinions on Notre Dame Football. Sure, alumni had it at one point, but now they are likely to hear more balanced discussion of Notre Dame sports on TV, with friends, etc. (as opposed to living within the Hype Bubble) and therefore will be inherently more negative, often realistic. They don’t connect faces and personalities and friendships with the current players, and because of this it is easier to yell at them when they mess up in a game, or openly question their ability or character or commitment after a loss. And that only makes sense.
Another reason that general fans and current students might differ is that general fans may get the impression that Notre Dame isn’t trying hard enough to win. While non-affiliated fans support the ideals of an academically-focused, religious institution, they would be much more willing to sacrifice those ideals for a winning football team than a current student would. Students understandably value their degrees, so maintaining academic standards that make it harder for Notre Dame to recruit the “best” athletes are something that we support, that others may not. If you aren’t going to receive a Notre Dame degree, you have nothing to lose by arguing for lowering the standards to get in. And when Notre Dame keeps those standards high, it seems like they are making it excessively hard to compete in today’s game (because they are). But overwhelmingly students state that they want those standards to remain in place, and one can only assume that a purely football fan would be okay sacrificing those for some extra wins.
But there is more to the disconnect that just knowing the guys that are currently on the team, or even valuing education over football.The disconnect seems like it can partly be attributed to an age gap as well: that students now are growing up in a different era than a lot of general fans and alumni.
The fact is, if you are above the age of about 32, you grew up watching much greater Notre Dame teams than I ever have. You were old enough to remember watching Notre Dame’s last National Championship and Heisman winner. Which is awesome for you, but has also caused you to have extremely high expectations for our team, expectations that the current generation of students has never once seen us reach. Look, Notre Dame students today still know all the history, and there is still the feel that Notre Dame NEEDS to win, that we SHOULD be winning, and we still believe that we are the best program in college football history. But the results we have seen in our lifetime hasn’t indicated that, and as much as we all hate to admit it, that repeated failure to reach the ultimate goal (or even any “good” goal, say general BCS game) is something we have gotten used to. And because of that, we don’t truly understand how upset a lot of older fans and alumni are to see their once high-flying program looking mediocre. We like to think we do, but we don’t. We think we are upset, but we aren’t quite as much as the older guys. And that makes sense too.
One other thing about the generation gap: not only has our winning percentage declined over time, but our style of football has radically changed as well. This is not something that is exclusive to Notre Dame, but rather college football as a whole, as the running game has been losing importance over the last decade or so. This also relates to the disconnect among older fans/alumni and current students.
When teams are losing, everybody seemingly knows more than the coach. And if you disagree with the coach when your team is losing, particularly with his play-calling, then you are probably going to be much more negative in your outlook on the team, since you fundamentally don’t support what they are doing. From reading tons and tons of Notre Dame articles, forums, and opinions, I get the sense that older fans wish that Notre Dame would run significantly more. Wish that we would pound it up the middle. That we would hold all opponents to 14 points or less. Things that were the recipe for the success “back in the day”, but are simply not as feasible in today’s game. But because the style of football has changed, and we are losing, they conflate those two ideas and insist that we just have the wrong philosophy and are (ironically) running ourselves into the ground.
Conversely, the current students don’t know what winning feels like to the same degree that those before us once did, so our expectations aren’t let down quite as much. And we have only known pass-happy football for the most part, so we don’t fault play-calling or offensive philosophy as much as we do just lack of talent compared to other schools, or the increased academic load that we put on our athletes. Current students identify different culprits for losing than alumni or non-affiliated fans, and because of that, we naturally react differently. We attribute losing to factors that aren’t going to change for the university, and so (I hate typing this) it simply becomes more acceptable to lose.
Something about the whole “acceptable to lose” premise that I really, REALLY want to stress: it is a subconscious thing. Students now still want to win, and want to win badly. In fact, we may have more urgency to win than anybody, because our 4 years here go by so fast, and we all want to be part of that national title run. There is no greater energy on campus than the weeks following wins, and there is a tangible depressed mood that can be felt on campus after losses. We don’t want losing to be acceptable, but it is just a fact that we have had to deal with a lot of it during our lifetimes.
All in all, I think the disconnect among fans and students is definitely a real one when it comes to how we react to losses. This does not mean there are not negative students and there are definitely many positive non-student fans too. But it is fair to say that as a whole these different crowds do have different reactions. Ultimately though, there is one thing that we do all share, and that’s a passion for winning. So hopefully we can all celebrate together when we bring home the title this season.
Love it/Hate it? I love to hear your feedback, so feel free to comment below or Tweet to me @GrantlandX
- The Shirt 2016: A ND Student’s Perspective - April 21, 2016
- Thank you, DJ - April 4, 2016
- The Stages of Watching a Notre Dame Basketball Game - March 25, 2016
trey
“Students understandably value their degrees, so maintaining academic standards that make it harder for Notre Dame to recruit the “best” athletes ”
I dont know how it is outside of the greatest state in the country, but here in Football Heaven, we have plenty of players who are scholar athletes that also play football. I’ve never bought into the “ND cant have great students and great FB players” mentality for this reason. Some of the best GPAs I graduated HS with were varsity stars, and it is the same across TX
fossilman
Well written GrantlandX. Its nice to know that there is someone out there that tries to understand someone elses perspective. Sounds like you tried to take a stroll in someone elses shoes. It can be very frustrating when the standard is excellence and you stand behind those words not just say them. We are not reaching the current standard at Notre Dame but I truly believe we are headed in the right direction. Be patient great things are going to happen soon for us.
Brian
The students’ steadfast positivity is understandable. It’s logical for true peers to support one-another. I’d be interested to see if that same positivity exists in places like Alabama.
I agree with Trey. I also graduated with many scholar-athletes that excelled in academics and sports. I’ve always attributed this to the inherent drive that makes so many star athletes seek excellence in whatever they do.
Twibby
Great points about the difference in the environments that current students grew up in vs. those fans that are 15+ years older. At the same time, I think that makes the younger generation thirst that much more for success since they have yet to experience it in the same way others have.
Bill Meehan
I am a fan, not an alum. I went to SMU. I did not get into ND. I am 26 years old.
I wouldn’t want ND to compromise admission standards for anything in the world. If ND were easier to get into for any artificial standard (such as lowering standards for athletes) it would diminish in my mind.
I also think the academic standards argument is a giant cop-out. I’d have argued otherwise 10 years ago, but I don’t think that’s the case anymore. If you follow recruiting (and it is one of my passions) I’m sure you’re aware that ND is fully capable of pulling in a top recruiting class. ND has a much larger attrition problem (both during the recruiting cycle and during playing careers) than people give weight to.
That said, I understand the difference, and I think there’s 2 generational factors in play. One, as you mention is the idea that older fans have seen the glory days, and have a larger expectation of success. SMU fans have a similar Gap with the pre-Death Penalty fans and the post-Death penalty fans. But the other generational gap that I’ve noticed is just a part of the process of getting older. I’m not nearly as optimistic when it comes to ND’s winning or coaching, or players as I was even 3 years ago.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m still just as excited as ever going into a season, but over time I’ve come to understand better all the dynamics that comprise a team. Whereas in the past I’d say “Bennett Jackson is going to be a beast & Lo Wood will be fantastic.” Now I say “Bennett Jackson is going to be a beast & Lo would may well be awesome, but they are unproven and this schedule is brutal. Also the lack of depth behind them is concerning.”
My point is, when I was younger I was more filled with optimism about what could be. Now I still have optimism, but I temper it with knowledge of the risks ahead.
To me, this difference is crucial to why Students and younger fans come off as more hopeful and upbeat than the jaded naysayers that are older fans.
bob
Great article. Thoughtful and accurate in my mind.
The criticism that ND should run the ball more often seems to mount every year. I hope you will explore this topic more in the future – it really does represent some kind of divide between the generations.
The Ref
That’s highly unlikely to happen. Ratings, fan interest, $$$ is higher for a PASSING game and both the NFL and NCAA are catering to that fact. The run game will become less and less of a priority in the future.
Aeroscorp
Just like the guy above me, I’m 26 and didn’t make good enough grades to make it into Notre Dame (though the lack of a Mass Comm. program probably would have kept me from attending, anyway). I’ve been a fan of the Irish since 1996 and have no grasp of the “glory days” like so many people who comment on boards and forums. The only team close to being called “elite” during my time as a fan has been the 2005 team. Sad, I know.
Up until last year, I would’ve been considered an optimistic fan of the Irish. That was until I made my very first trip up to Notre Dame last October for the USC game. I did the whole routine that weekend: pep rally, getting lost on campus, The Grotto, pre-game activities, etc. in anticipation for what I felt was going to be the turning point game. It was going to be the game that Notre Dame finally stuck their head from beneath the earth and proclaimed, “WE’RE BACK.”
Instead, out of the Trojan horse came Matt Barkley in his coming-out game. Once again, the Irish, under the brighest lights of the season, fell flat on their face.
Ugh.
I don’t expect this season to be much different, especially if Rees starts like I’m expecting. 6-6 if we’re lucky, but that would be the same with any of the QBs. It’s not going to be pretty this year and Kelly’s going to be legitimately on the hot seat and people will begin calling for his head.
And that’s a depressing thought.
NDEddieMac
Interesting read. If that is the attitude on campus these days, I wonder when the switch flipped as it were. As an ’07 graduate, it was very much the “hype bubble” you described, but losing was always just a dagger to the heart. Maybe it’s because we were on the tail end, agewise, of the split, but there was never any acceptance of losses, conscious or subconscious, that I could see at the time. Either way, be it academics, or change in styles, I’m not really interested anymore in trying to pinpoint why we’ve fallen off. I just want to win games. I don’t care who is coaching, who is at qb, why they got there, or if the grass is real or not. Just win games again. Please.
NDtex
I think what killed us was that the year before we came in Ty had his flash-in-the-pan 2002 season. The 2003 and 2004 clusters that followed after those high expectations was just infuriating.
Then we got lucky with the two good Weis years so the rare loses there were just crushing again since it looked like we were closer to getting it back together.
Thank God we left campus before the 2007 disaster. I wouldn’t have dealt with that well at all.
NDEddieMac
ALL OF THE ALCOHOL AND FELONIES had we still been there
tricerapops
great write-up and needed to be stated for the record, really. i think as alums we look back with selective memories regarding how bad losses were – and don’t get me wrong, they sucked – but students have the luxury that many non-student fans/alums don’t have after a loss, the (easy) ability to go out and try to salvage the weekend afterwards. yes, a loss sucked – but i was out the door and on the way to Turtle Creek or a bar to get to drankin’ and try to get laid. win or lose, we booze(d). i know that sounds braggadico and “COLLEGE, BRO!” but it’s real – for all the reasons stated above plus college kids are just college kids (including the players) the losses were processed differently. That’s part of the innocence of being on campus those four years – and god bless those students.
The Biscuit
plus, college kids are too busy having fun to grump around like us old men.
HerringBoneSports
It’s an interesting read Grantland. Even as an outsider and non-grad I can say with certainty that the school’s pursuit of academic excellence combined with on-field excellence is something I value and wish for them to maintain. Having said that …
I totally agree that there is a massive portion of the fan base with “other” or no degrees who could care less if the team GPA was 2.2, had a 58% Grad Rate but went on a 47-5 tear over 4 years. You’re right that the suffering of the diploma wouldn’t cause them any concern.
I also find it hard, again as an outsider, to believe the students stroll the grounds content with the performance of the team as of late. Part of the draw to Notre Dame is being in the student section for an epic home win with 100,000 friends and the stories that last a lifetime. I just think the students accept the reality that these players and coaches they see regularly (and not just on their big screens at home) are doing everything within their power to make that happen.
The respect students have for their friends and fellow classmates is bound to outweigh the disgust from a dropped pass or the choice to use 3 defenders on your goal line offense during the play that defined the season. I’m okay with that.