Just been scanning the usual ND Internet realms today, noticing a lot of discussion around “if ND had/would hire Nick Saban.” Wondering what you think. Alabama just tied ND for most final AP #1 rankings. And I wonder, if ND had hired Nick Saban at any point since Lou Holtz left, would ND fans still be feeling upset about the state of the program today? Or is there something deeper within ND, and bigger across college football, that’s at least partly to blame?
[poll id=”30″]
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Picked Off
Let’s be honest, “fans” would have been calling for his head by 2005. The “fan” base loves to chew them up and spit them out if we don’t have an national championship by year one. Get real people…
SH
Can he oversign, accept JC transfers? How many exemptions can he have?
The fallacies in this are:
1. People assume you dump a load of cash on Saban and he’ll go anywhere
2. Because Saban wasn’t hired and the search wasn’t made public, the crazies assume Swarbrick didn’t even inquire about the likes of Saban, Miles, Stoops, Gruden…
I’m glad the mental institute isn’t running the ship.
Matt Q. (DMQ)
Though your questions were rhetorical, assume Saban has to live by the constraints ND has had in place over the same time period.
SH
Yeah they were rhetorical.
NDtex
Two reasons for my “no” vote: Saban’s recipe for success includes not giving a damn about his players (over-signing is exhibit A) which wouldn’t have flown at ND. Secondly, we really think that Saban still wouldn’t have flown the coupe for the Dolphins in 2003?
So basically we are trading two years of Ty for two years of Saban? That makes no sense. You take out Ty’s best year, which we can assume Saban would’ve had and maybe a slightly better year than Ty had in 2003 before he jumps ship?
OH YAY HE SAVED US ALL! Please…
Matt Q. (DMQ)
I should have figured you’d have picked up on the Dolphins/2003 thing. You and your darn NFL fandom. I wasn’t so much laying a trap. Just wanted to see if anyone else would have picked up on that.
trey
I voted “no” purely because I think the mindset that a coach wins you a MNC is a false premise. Take this year as the prime example, Kelly had everything set up exactly as needed in nearly every game, save USC and Stan, and we fell all over ourselves and caused the losses ON THE FIELD. ND’s problems aren’t talent, scheme, or decision based. They’re execution based and the guys ON THE FIELD aren’t getting it done.
NDtex
The right coach definitely can propel you to a title. The catch is that you need to have the right kind of coach for your program. Saban works in the SEC, I don’t think he works at ND.
The Biscuit
The biggest fallacy in all of it: that he’d ever consider working at ND, ever ever ever. NO WAY he would ever come to ND. Too many restrictions, too much honor, not enough shadiness to do what he does. He knows it, no doubt. And I am SURE Swarbrick knows it, so I very much doubt he was ever even contacted. If Weis, an alum, bristled at the environment, Saban wouldn’t touch it with a 1,000 foot pole.
Matt Q. (DMQ)
I disagree. I think there’s a “way” Saban or his type could be lured to ND. Just shove monumental amounts of money their way.
What I would argue is that it would be a terrible investment. A total waste of money. He’d just be cashing in on failure.
Ska
RES life at that time was an absolute negative monster for all of ND. Even the very straight students disliked and distrusted RES life. It has become much more realistic.
tricerapops
won’t echo too much with what has been stated above with why it wouldn’t work, but i agree wholeheartedly. saban @ ND isn’t the same as Saban at any other school. oil and water methinks. Lou succeeded because it was the proverbial lightning in the bottle situation. we all agree that the landscape of CFB has changed dramatically since then, and ND is playing from behind. a coach like Saban isn’t going to be the silver bullet. The jury remains out on BK, but the foundation that has been laid down, starting with Weis will hopefully pay off soon, or at least get us closer to our CFB peers.
NDtex
The poll is only slightly ahead in the “no” column, yet there are quite a few “yes” votes with no comments behind them. I am very curious as to the logic behind the “yes” votes.
Not trolling, dead serious and hoping for a legitimate argument besides “He’s won at LSU and Alabama”. Personally, I can’t see it, but I would love to see the other side of the argument.
Wilhelm ND '80
We need to stop with the coulda, woulda, shoulda. It is infuriating. We have what we have. We are now and will remain VERY different from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s iterations of the Fighting Irish. If we are honest with ourselves, football put ND on the map and Father Hesbergh started a push that put ND academics at the forefront. My children are legacies, but I am sure they would have been admitted to ND anyway. However, were I to apply to ND now based upon my 1976 scores, extra-curriculars and GPA, I am not so sure I would get in. ND has stressed academics and the football program “suffered” – – I say suffered advisedly. What we really mean is that the focus has simply shifted. We cannot be one of the top 25 academic institutions in the U.S. (which we are NOW) and CONSISTENTLY be one of the top 5 – 10 football powers. We do not court JUCO’s, we do not “grey shirt” we actually ENSURE that our athletes graduate (we should be proud to be #1 in that statistic). I predict we WILL have another MNC year in the next five to ten seasons. It will come about based upon many “planet aligning” factors that are more based upon good fortune and ball bounces than talent, coaching, etc. But, you know what? I have screamed at the television, I have sunk into deep fits of temporary depression (I think alcohol may play a role in that issue . . .) I have smiled and cheered for EVERY ND team since the day I was born and will every day until I die. I will weep tears of joy the next time we win a MNC. However, I will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS cheer cheer . . . that is one of the reasons they called us “rah rah’s” (it also does not hurt that “rah rah” is part of the Victory March (nota bene – it is NOT a fight song, it is a VICTORY MARCH)) But I will not engage in apologetics or engage in coulda, woulda, shoulda post-hoc analysis of the football team. (Sorry for the length of this rant . . .)
GO IRISH
Pat
As things stand, it’s hard to argue Saban wouldn’t have been a good hire in 2002. But, I think we are on the right track with Kelly, so I’m not worried.
Jeremy
I voted yes. I think our biggest problem back then was recruiting, and he is a great recruiter, so the cupboard would have been a little more stocked for the next guy which may have brought someone like Urban Meyer in next instead of Weis. However, I am not at all convinced Saban would do that well at ND with the rules we have – I don’t think he would stay long and he very likely would not win the NC, but a couple of years of bringing in recruits could have made a big difference back then.
Cross&Anchor
As many others here have said, it’s unlikely Saban would have ever come here, but if he had, he would have stayed only briefly. He fits with the football ethos of Alabama, and the culture of Alabama football is tailor-made for him. It’s a perfect relationship. Like Jefferson Davis, the man and the hour have met. In the same way, Urban Meyer would never have come to Notre Dame or stayed briefly. It is no accident that he ended up at Florida and then Ohio State, schools that have a very different football culture than Notre Dame. Just as it takes a special player to come to Notre Dame (same can be said for Stanford and some others), with the “burdens” of rules and academics, I think it takes a special coach who can live up to the community standards and expectations of the Dome.
For Saban to have come here and thrived, he would not be Saban.
Dan
I think Saban would have been a short term success and a long term failure in 2002. Obviously Willingham had some pieces on the roster to make his run in the first year, so Saban would have been able to do similar, if not better. At the same time, much like everyone else said, either ND would have had to change drastically, very quickly, to “get along” with Saban, or Saban would be out the door looking for some place that he did have the autonomy he requires to run a football team. Our stress should not be on finding a top tier coach, whatever the cost (both monetary and otherwise), but a coach that fits with the atomosphere/rules at ND. I’m unhappy with the team/results in the current form, but at least the coach currently fits the institutional system on the whole.
solo076
Love the posts particularly Wilhelm. Love him to death, but in Holtz’s last two years his recruiting was not the same. Davie inherited talent that Lou was already starting…and who really wants to come play for Davie or Ty? Dont get me wrong they have their place, but left a lot to be desired with players especially skill positions.
ND’s return will be like baseball and the farm system. It has to develop and be nurtured. Above all that talent has to be cultivated and not hit and miss on a few players here and there. Football is different at ND but recruiting has been on the move. Its not about stars its about ability and coachability. It appears that Big Kellz will bring in some good recruits. Lets just hope that transitions on the field. I hope he learns though, but with a so so running game, calling delayed runs with a D like FSU isnt the smartest thing in my book. Now if the Bus was running…ok
Saban is a politician more than most. He would have left quick but more so I dont even think he would have come. People at ND speak english and are educated. There are values and from what I can remember values that do not bend for sports at all *maybe aside from MF last year. Not a good fit though I don’t knock his football IQ.
Football still makes money. Still provides for the University and is honorable. I would rather ND stay right where we are that to compromise the honor and integrity of the University. That might cost me more in replacing TV’s and give me a stroke, but as a whole it is hard to beat. I am Air Force thru and thru, but Im tatoo’ed ND forever.
Keep up the great work guys much love to everyone and thanks for the much needed sanity breaks.
Ska
Give up the Nick Satan idea. Never make it at ND. Watched BCS game. His players are not spending much if any time in the classroom. He is all about money and finding ways around the NCAA rules. Surprised he has not been busted by now. Notice how he stays in the SEC and not long for any team.
Zuskie
Considering TW was a failure, I don’t see why wouldn’t have wanted Saban. He’s been successful at 3 colleges. He knows how to coach. He would have been successful at ND. Maybe not NC & maybe he would have clashed with the culture & still jumped for the Dolphins. But he would have coached guys up, would have recruited, and the ship would have been sailing in the right direction years ago for the next coach (who knows who it could have been?).
I also disagree that taking way his ability to over sign would render him helpless. He’s an awesome coach & has a great system.