Notre Dame is behind the times.
I’m sure there will be a good portion that will disagree with me on that statement, citing that Notre Dame’s “tradition” should trump things such as new helmets, field turf, or even, *gasp* a jumbotron. Those things aren’t “tradition”, they are simply how “we’ve always done it”. The two are not equivalent.
Before I came to Her Loyal Sons, I wrote about a costly result of staying in the mindset of “this is how we’ve always done it”, the death of Declan Sullivan. And, no, I’m not equating the tragic death of a fellow Domer to something as trivial as a jumbotron (even though I’ve read/heard opinions on the matter that suggest such an issue is far from trivial); however, I can think of no better example of this mindset that I’ve already happened to write 1,000+ words on.
Want to know what the real tradition is at Notre Dame? Innovation and change.
Notre Dame is often mistaken for the inventors of the forward pass thanks to the Dorais regularly hitting future coach, Knute Rockne, with a slew of down-field passes in an upset of Army. While the Irish were on the outside of conferences looking in (thanks Michigan! [no, seriously, thanks]), we created a national schedule, unheard of at the time, allowing for our biggest rival to be from Southern California instead of across the Indiana/Michigan border. The famed student manager program came into existence thanks to Rockne, who even allowed them to sneak on to trains so they could assist the Irish football team on road games. Rockne also made sure to promote ND as a profitable entity and even became a pitchman for Studebaker.
To this day, there is still not other school that has been crazy enough to put real gold into their helmet paint. While the green jerseys had been around before, it wasn’t until Devine’s Irish warmed up in blue and came out in green (in a Trojan horse no less, a move I’m sure that would be called a “gimmick” today) after an 11 year absence that the jerseys became the most famous alternate jersey in all of college football. Before the Big Ten and Longhorn Networks were even a thought, the Irish had their contract with NBC.
But changing the uniforms, piping in music, thinking about installing field turf and a jumbotron? BLASPHEMY!
For some reason, ND slammed the brakes on innovation or change around the Lou Holtz era. And what were other programs doing during that time? Changing, adapting, playing catch-up to programs like ND and eventually passing them. Training tables, new facilities, new stadiums, suites, and yes, even jumbotrons and field turf. The result was that other programs started to become more appealing than they had before.
To anyone else outside the Notre Dame bubble, the entire Notre Dame tradition seems to have stopped with the last championship in 1988 and no one has bothered to completely move on since. Now consider the mindset of 17-18 year old kids who weren’t even alive when Notre Dame was at the pinnacle of the college football world. Unless they have some sort of previous affiliation with Notre Dame, lived in the Midwest, or happened to stumble across Rudy, they have absolutely no concept of what the place is like even in comparison to current young alumni when they were the same age. The Notre Dame that everyone else grew up with might as well just be a myth to them.
This is the uphill battle the Irish have been fighting for years when competing for the best talent in the nation. With a lack of major improvements to the stadium, football facilities, and some awful coaching and recruiting, Notre Dame suffered greatly in the post-Holtz era. The talent dwindled and the losses piled up, further pushing recruits away to other football programs.
That trend didn’t stop until Charlie Weis, who proved that you can indeed recruit to South Bend. You know what else changed though? The Gug was finally opened for Weis’ first year, which was the first major change to any football facility since the stadium renovations in 1997, nearly a full decade.
With new world class facilities, a cocky attitude, BCS run, love and understanding of ND, and a shiny Super Bowl ring, Weis had the power to lure kids back into the program and rebuild Notre Dame. Ultimately, Weis feel short, but stopped the bleeding of the Notre Dame football program from a talent level perspective. Even Weis messed around with tradition, having the players sing the alma mater in front of the student section and standing behind the service academies during theirs.
Now in comes Kelly (and Swarbrick) for a new era, with a spread offense, a newly instituted and long overdue training table, new helmets, piped in music, the Shamrock Series, and talk of field turf and jumbotrons. Somehow, these proposed changes are morphed into either ND selling out and debasing themselves for either revenue, pandering to kids/recruits in ways that we shouldn’t, or somehow a combination of both. Even when prompted by suggestions that said changes could result in wins, that thought is dismissed as well as we should be wining without such changes that are apparently beneath us.
The Holy Land of the NFL, Lambeau Field, has field turf, specifically a blend of grass with synthetic support that ND has been rumored to be looking at. Kyle Field, home the Texas A&M Aggies, a school with ad much tradition, rituals, and a rabid fan base as the Irish, has a jumbotron that has failed to detract from their gameday atmosphere.
Yet installing field turf on our own frozen tundra is wrong? Instant replay reviews are now law in college football, yet fans inside the stadium shouldn’t be allowed to view them as well? Would it be so bad to see clips from ICON during TV timeouts instead of an endless parade of strangers on the 20 yard line? And if all of it happens to be just enough to add on to Notre Dame’s already fantastic traditions to get a 5-star to send in a fax in Feburary, is that so wrong?
The fact is that Notre Dame has a gap to fill that spans over a decade long. Notre Dame created it by using our storied tradition as a crutch to keep us in the top tier of the college football world, even during times when the wins didn’t add up. This inactivity was a message to the rest of the college football world that Notre Dame was content to have our future legacy be our past.
Notre Dame coaches have traditionally rocked the boat a bit and ignored parts of the past to leave their own imprint and legacy for the future. Rockne was ready to resign if his house wasn’t built. Leahy ruffled feathers by throwing out Rock’s playbook and installing his own system. Ara was the first non-ND graduate to take the helm. Devine resurrected the green jerseys after Ara sealed them up for 11 years, made them his own, put names on the back of them, and even had an endzone logo of the fighting Irish during his tenure. Holtz then proceed to rip those names off the jerseys and went completely old school, seemingly leaving his personal imprint as the one many “traditionalists” long for.
Kelly, like any of ND’s great coaches of the past, wants to live a similar personal imprint. Â His suggestions and changes made thus far should not be viewed as earth shattering. Field turf, especially the kind installed at Green Bay, would be a monumental improvement to Notre Dame Stadium. While I’m not the biggest fan of the Shamrock Series helmet, as Kelly said, the only opinion that matters are the 105 players in the locker room and they loved it. He’s right. The whole green jersey tradition was to get the players motivated, a pop from the fans is just an additional benefit. Even the biggest divisive issue, a jumbotron shouldn’t be a crazy “tradition breaker”, especially seeing as how the basketball and hockey teams have nice shiny new screens.
I’m sure most of this will be dismissed by certain parts of the fan base, citing my age as the determining factor for why I “just don’t get it”. They will point to the one-time overplaying of Crazy Train as proof Notre Dame can’t get new technology right (even though it aired one more time during Navy as a punchline to their own joke they inadvertently created). Some will say that Kelly and the current administration, Swarbrick included, have proved they don’t “get” Notre Dame and are too concerned about the ever changing whims of the kids which the University is supposed to serve.
The tradition of Notre Dame is much more than some grass, a helmet, a uniform, the type of music played in a stadium, and the absence of a jumbotron. Arguments can be made about the speed, timing, and the execution of such changes (MQ did just that yesterday); however, attempting to use “tradition” as the central basis for an argument against change isn’t genuine and dismisses the history of the Irish.
- Epilogue - January 3, 2022
- HLS Podcast Finale - January 2, 2022
- The Final Fiesta: Notre Dame vs Oklahoma State NCAA ’14 Sim - December 31, 2021
Ska
Some fans probably miss the brown leather helmets with players missing front teeth. Change is good when it is well conceived and makes for better fan experience, rather than adding to clutter and a junk experience.
ShamRockNRoll
Great perspective. I’m not the biggest fan of this Saturday’s helmet’s either, but overall I like the concept and the whole approach of Kelly & Swarbrick to continue the tradition of innovation and progress at ND, both on and off the field.
Ska
Some ideas for change that could improve ND fan experience and not turn off the traditionalists.
1. mic the irish band and play and compose a catchy musical fight ditty like the skunkbears and U$C do. Sometimes it seems the opposing fight ditties have worn down the irish fans to submission just from the repetition and distaste for the opposing band fight ditty.
2. when playing pop music, select music that enhances the ND brand. Crazy Train was generic and fired up U$C as much or more than ND. The Drop Kick Murphy group is much more Irish and can give the opposition a sense they are running into a strong Irish wind.
3. Set a ticket policy that will allow Irish fans who want to stand and cheer most or all of the game to have areas in the stadium where they can do so. Place tolerant ushers in the standing area.
4. Coordinate Irish colors to contrast with the opposing team colors. And have the Irish fans all on the same color page. In other words don’t wear green for a Sparty game!
Other people can come up with many more changes for the better. Love to hear some.
Robert
Genius, love all of these suggestions
Josh
“3. Set a ticket policy that will allow Irish fans who want to stand and cheer most or all of the game to have areas in the stadium where they can do so. Place tolerant ushers in the standing area.”
Yes! I love it! Except it should be the whole stadium not just a section:)
NDtex
I’ve always felt that ND needs to find a way to get suites in for people like this (gold seats always come to mind).
A NDN poster actually had a great mockup of such a design.
SDI
Agree–suites would help.
SDI
One thing to keep in mind is that not all pop music is licensed by the record companies for use in stadiums and other venues. It’s not a coincidence that all stadiums play the same jock rock–those are the songs that the record companies are willing to license.
simontonlake
The shamrock is ridiculous.
The Subway Domer
You’re my hero, Ryan Ritter.
mkmcfrlnd
I can’t wait until this weekend’s game is over, so that everyone complaining about the helmets can move on to parsing Kelly’s post game PC comments or the shoes he wears to practice on Monday.
Brad
I love tradition, especially in regard to Notre Dame.
But I often thing people just over-think and over-react to a lot of this sort of thing.
In the words of Al Davis….
“Just win, baby.”
SH
Very much agree with your sentiments. Well said across the board. If I could rant a little here…
The thing that pisses me off the most in all this (and what seems like every few years) concerns the withholding of donations to the school. How are these people serious (and not embarrassed) about being so upset about helmets, uniforms, the possibility of a jumbotron and fieldturf that they would take their money away from the university and its students? Why not shift those funds to financial aid or the CSC or some other worthwhile cause if you don’t agree with the athletic department’s handling of things.
And to top it all off you feel so entitled that your threat of withholding a donation should alter how the AD and coach do their jobs? Who the hell do you think you are? The AD doesn’t owe you a letter, an explanation, or a minute of his time especially if you’re that much of a spoiled brat.
That’s not the Notre Dame I went to. It IS what I thought Notre Dame was until I visited and eventually went there, was pleasantly surprised that it wasn’t what ND is about.
It’s just absolutely disgusting…
TXIrish2
Well said. Really, who cares about the helmets? Next shamrock series game they can try some other new uniform idea. That’s what keeps it exciting.
kreyfish34
When the Irish start winning 10 game seasons, all of this talk of betrayed tradition will blow over. Until then, it’s just additional fodder for “fans”.
I remember, not too long ago, an historic race track here in central Ky talked of adding an announcer for the races at Keeneland. It had never been done there before. Racing was exactly the way it was when the track opened in 1936. The announcer was added and…the world didn’t end. Visiting Keeneland is as fun as it ever was and the racing is still fantastic.
I say change the turf, add the music, put up the giant TV screen. All I really care about is what is taking place in the win/loss columns. Go Irish!!
MarkG
I saw a show the other night about the design and building of the great European cathedrals. The builder of Saint Denis called his architecture “modern.” Critics came up with the insult “Gothic” in reference to the barbarian goths. Now we embrace it as traditional and repeat it thoughout the ND campus.
Point is that all traditions actually innovations at some point.
I don’t like the shamrock helmets, and would prefer a miked up band (3 parabolics would do it, I think) to piped in music, etc., but the views of some 55 year old grad on these points is irrelevant. I want Our Lady’s school to play excellent football (and soccer, and hockey …) while maintaining extremely high academic and personal behaviour standards and graduating student atheletes in real majors who care about the world. That’s it. That is substance. That is plenty enough to worry about. The rest is all window dressing that obviously is important to 18 year old recruits and some students, but not to an old codger.
ILDomer17
I was at the USC and Navy games, and the music has helped get the non-student crowd on its feet. Some will say that true die-hard fans don’t need gimmicks like music to get behind the team, but the average Joe responds to it quite favorably. Crazy Train was overdone against USC but they did tone it down for Navy and had better selection and timing. I think mic’ing the band is a great, non-Tron solution for generating ND-centric noise.
Also, as I re-watched the Navy game at home, I noticed that NBC is playing 3-second clips of rock jock going into commercial breaks instead of the usual ND themed clips. This may be adding to the perception of the viewer at home that piped in music is a runaway train and the band is being marginalized, which is not the case so far.
Joe Magarac
But changing the uniforms, piping in music, thinking about installing field turf and a jumbotron? BLASPHEMY!
NDTex, I agree with your post for the most part, but I think you’re creating a straw man and then knocking it down. You don’t point to any specific people who are opposed to new uniforms, recorded music, a jumbotron, et cetera, and are opposed solely because those things would be untraditional.
I think that if some ND alums have been uneasy about the innovations you describe, it’s not because they are reflexively opposed to new things. I am uneasy about the innovations you describe, and it’s because I think they create an SEC-school vibe in which college football is acknowledged to be a business and not an extension of the sponsoring school’s academic mission. For example, I don’t have any problem with a Jumbotron that shows replays. I do have a problem with a Jumbotron that shows ads. Swarbrick has talked about this tension in past press conferences (in which he suggested that ND self-consciously tried to use the Jumbotron at Yankee Stadium in a classy way during last year’s Army game).
And for the record, I think it’s worth being precise about the different types of artificial turf that ND could install. “Field Turf” is a trademarked name for a specific kind of completely artificial surface. Lambeau Field does not use “Field Turf,” it uses a blended turf called “DD Grassmaster” which is mostly real grass but with some artificial fibers added in for support. I like the idea of ND having blended turf; I don’t like the idea of ND having “Field Turf.” I think the blended turf looks and feels better and is safer for the players.
NDtex
Believe me, I have see more than enough posts and talked to enough people to make the claim that there are a solid bunch that feel such changes aren’t tradition.
As I said in the post, the execution of said changes should be open for debate. Crazy Train caused such a backlash that the Navy game saw drastic change in music. I have a hard time believe that ND is blind to the already growing concern of a jumbotron being a fancy billboard, especially since Swarbrick has already admitted as much.
The same really goes for the field turf. It has been a readily dismissed idea without people digging into the new technology available as you mention.
starkruzr
The more I read about that Lambeau hybrid turf the more I like it. The temperature control and feel of grass with the strength of artificial turf, which is important to have when we keep tearing divots up out of the existing grass. I want the field to survive the whole game, and the whole season.
Pat
Kelly didn’t name names either, but he seemed to be making a broader point when he said the only thing he cared about was that the guys in the locker room liked the uniforms.
Joe, is there not a bit of irony saying you don’t want ND to have an “SEC-vibe,” the conference that has produced the last 4 or 5 national championship winners? Sure, there’s an academic mission, but winning is also a mission, if we are to field a team at all.
Lastly, on grass vs. turf, we should just go all the way to FieldTurf if we make the change at all. There’s no reason to go 10% synthetic, the field only is used 6-7 times a year, and it always seems in great shape to me. But if you want to change the look and add speed, make the commitment fully and go to FieldTurf.
Erik '04
I don’t necessarily disagree with your point, but if the field “always seems in great shape” to you, then you’re clearly not watching the games closely enough. Huge chunks of sod come flying up when players make cuts upfield, or DBs try to break on the ball, especially near the sidelines.
Joe Magarac
Joe, is there not a bit of irony saying you don’t want ND to have an “SEC-vibe,†the conference that has produced the last 4 or 5 national championship winners?
I don’t think so, for two reasons. First, ND is trying to show that a school can strive for excellence in everything, without compromises. In football, that means trying to win a national championship without taking any of the standard SEC shortcuts (e.g., recruiting more than 85 kids a cycle and then forcing some of them to leave the team; graduating less than 50% of your players; shunting the players who do graduate into majors like basket-weaving, etc.). If the only way to have a Jumbotron is to use it like the SEC schools use theirs – with lots of ads and attempts to manufacture enthusiasm – then I don’t want one.
Second, I think you are using “ironic” in the Alanis Morissette sense of the word, not the traditional sense. Traditionally, “ironic” meant saying one thing while meaning another, usually while trying to be funny. For example, “I’m sure Stephon Tuitt was excited when Coach Kelly made him call his mom and say he skipped a class.” In the Alanis Morissette sense, “ironic” means an additional burden. For example, “A traffic jam when you’re already late / A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break.” I refuse to recognize Alanis Morissette’s definition of “ironic,” therefore my position is not ironic.
Vairish84
I agree with all that is posted. The only tradition that should be inviolable is winning the right way. We can run a spread, an option, a power I, the ND Box, the veer, the winged T, just score points. We can run a 3-4, a 4-3, a 3-3-5,a s3-4 with 4-3 personnel, just stop the other team from scoring.
Don’t cheat.
I am not a big fan of the shamrocks, but once a year as it appears it will be is not so bad and in time will be a new tradition. I like the new gold helmets.
We never played home games at night. That is a tradition. People seem happy to abandon that one. I guess it is only a tradition that can’t be broken if the person complaining likes it.
I would rather mic the band than pipe in music, whether from Dropkick Murphys or U2 (another Irish band). I agree that if we are going to pipe in music then we should be as original as possible in our choices.
I do think a jumbotron is a serious change in the stadium atmosphere, and a decision to install one should not be taken lightly. My impression is that nobody is taking it lightly.
starkruzr
“We never played home games at night.”
Er. That just isn’t so.
Pat
BINGO! You hit it on the head, NDTex.
Brad
In regard to all of this, I just wanted to say that I really, REALLY loved Kelly’s response. Regardless of what people think about the Helmets, etc., his response made me say “Wow. Great answer.”
When asked about the shamrocks on the helmets, he said as follows:
Q. Just off topic a little bit, there’s quite a bit of buzz about the uniforms for the game. There’s some outside perception that so much of this is for recruiting purposes, being able to draw attention, get some buzz going. How realistic is that, or is that overrated?
COACH KELLY: No, look, the only people I care about relative to the uniforms are the 105 guys that were in this room when we showed it to them, and they were excited. All due respect to everybody else that has an opinion, I really don’t care about theirs, I care about what my players think, and our players love it. We’re going to stay with those kinds of things that still fall within our color schemes and our logoing, and kids like that stuff. So if our kids like it, then I can tell you I’m certain that the recruits like it, as well. And that’s really the only people that measure for me relative to who likes them and who doesn’t like them.
Q. If they didn’t like it, do you have veto power?
COACH KELLY: I would tell you this: If they didn’t like what we showed them, I would not even touch the topic again. But they’re the ones that generate this. The players come to me, they see what other teams are doing and what other programs have, and they bring it to them, and I shoot it up the flagpole and see if anybody likes it and then go from there.
That Girl from Psych 111
Very well-written, Ritter. I have been casually opposed to many of the changes that you discussed, but you certainly make some good points as to why they shouldn’t be viewed as cracking the foundation on the house that Rock built.
Frankly, we as fans can’t overstate our presence in the university’s decision-making process during the week until we make ourselves a more commanding presence on gameday. Outside of the student section, we are embarrassingly quiet and reserved when compared to other big name football programs. If the university wants to experiment with new things to try to amp up the energy level of the crowd, I can’t say that I blame them too much.
NDtex
Ok, you win for best internet handle ever (even if I’m the only one that gets it).
Erik '04
Here’s the video of Brad’s quotes:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7207957/notre-dame-fighting-irish-braxston-cave-year-due-surgery
(yes, the video doesn’t go with the Cave story)
Here’s some quotes from the players to back up coach Kelly.
http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/2407/new-uniforms-please-players
I had pushed the entire Michigan game from my memory for obvious reasons, but one of the ESPN videos showed clips from that game, and in retrospect I did like the uni’s we wore for it.
NDtex
I love that the players want more jersey choices, even an all-black that will likely never happen. It just goes to show that Kelly knows exactly what he is talking about when he only cares what his players and recruits think.
trey
Who here remembers the movie “Drumline?” ND plays the part of Georgia A&T and the old fart crowd is the band director. Guys like NDTex and BK who are out there trying to get things new and exciting are like the main character who consistently pushes the envelope of acceptable behavior. In the end of the movie, he made a few bad mistakes, but overall he changes the whole attitude of the band and the culture of his stuffy director. Even the stuffy director comes around and realizes the changes are for the best.
SH
I put a thumbs down on this – not because of your analogy but because you saw the movie Drumline… haha
trey
Thanks…;-)
canuck75
Its funny how this Board generally agrees with the changes or at least understands them whereas the other board sees this as more proof that Kelly is the wrong person on all levels.
I agree wholeheartedly with a couple of sentiments; if the boys like the changes, thats the most important part. As I remarked two weeks ago re the music controversy, it was clear and obvious that the players on the field were enjoying the music and using it to rev up on KO and KR.
NDtex
I will credit that “other board” with one thing and that is the fact that, at heart, they do not want the University completely bastardized to the point in which we become Generic Football U. In all honesty, I do respect that.
The argument really comes down to whether or not fans believe ND can get with modern times and do it right or not.
canuck75
Tex, in a way I changed the topic slightly. I agree with you on change is good,but must be done right. My passing comment about the other board is that it is close to a hatred for our Coach that is being expressed, and in rude and crass terms. I am truly shocked at the venom being spewed over such minor issues as music, or helmuts or grass, and that it is aimed directly at our Coach whom most of us is doing a good job.
While these forums are for strong opinions and not for the faint of heart, there still should be some lines that are respected and not crossed. I read the Michigan blogs with some regularity (too much time on my hands) and I am sorry to say that they write in much more respectful tone even when on the attack, than we do.
Ironically, I wasn’t even going to comment on this subject because as a couple of others have said, all i really care about is how we play on the field. But to paraphrase an important saying, all that it takes for stupidity to spread is for good men to say nothing.
The Biscuit
The assumption that these changes are all on Kelly, or even partially, is over the top for me as well. We have no idea how much, or how little, these are ‘his’.
SDI
Good point Biscuit. Lou Holtz wanted to add the ND logo to the helmets and the admin said no–cased closed. Kelly’s players want to have an occasional retro uni game and the admin says yes and it happens. The difference isn’t Kelly, it’s Swarbrick or Jenkins or whoever else makes the final call.
NDtex
Honestly, I think that comes with the territory of being the head coach. It’s just such a visible position, especially at ND. The other thing is that Kelly is being quite vocal and unapologetic about his ideas, which I think is where certain people are driven nuts because they think Kelly is taking a shot at them.
Jeremy
Excellent post. As far as the new helmets for this Saturday are concerned, I don’t like them — therefore, I am not buying one. And I think that is about the level of concern any uniform change should get.
deaconblus
Man, pointing out the Blue-green jersey switch is critical. That is an incredible gimmick. College-y and very amateurish, but fun. And would get absolutely blasted today.
I wonder if the popularity of ‘throwbacks’ during Holtz tenure is in part responsible for his going to back to solid Navy, no names, no stripes, black cleats, etc. I remember that time pretty well and Notre Dame and PSU got a lot of publication for having relatively unadorned uniforms. Maybe, during that time, it resonated very well with recruits as well. It’s happenstance that it is also appealing to our largely conservative/reactionary older fan-base. Seen through that lens, it is less about Holtz doing it for tradition’s sake and more about finding one more way to set ND apart from the Miami’s, FSU’s and other recently arriving programs with little to no tradition.
Now, these schools have established almost as much of a recent tradition as we had in 1980.
Big Red
I think it’s a mistake to group everybody who’s opposed to ‘any’ change and imply that they are opposed to ‘all’ change and therefore contributing to ND’s football obsolescence.
I love tradition, it’s what makes college football the zesty passionate game it is (vs. the sharp, professional NFL), it’s why I’m so sad to see the insanity of conference realignment. That said, I’m fine with the new helmets (although not the Maryland ones- because they’re ugly, not because they’re ‘new’), I’m fine with a Lambeau-style grass-turf hybrid. However, I am NOT fine with a Jumbotron. Every stadium I’ve been to with some sort of similar entertainment system, I feel like I’m in the middle of some glorified commercial promotion.
At ND, paying attention to every play matters because there is no replay. It’s a simple, natural, genuine purity that I enjoy. Most importantly, I don’t think being opposed to this modification in any way inhibits Notre Dame as a competitive football power. Whatsoever. At all.
NDtex
Going to the game at Yankee Stadium greatly changed my opinion on that and as much as I hate to say it, I thought Michigan did their jumbotron presentation well when I worked that game as a manager. If the Skunkbears can do it right, so can we.
GraceHall1980
I’m all for paying attention in the stadium but there are limits. I’d like to see a replay of a crucial play near the north end zone when I’m sitting is the south end zone. I’d like to see a clip from Rudy or the Clements to Weber pass instead of the fencing team (and my roommate was a four letterman, one time national champion and one time runner up in foil!).
Nate
I’ve said this elsewhere, I’ll say it here: Knute Rockne never met a promotion scheme he didn’t like. He’d be the first person in line to shake up the uniforms, install a jumbotron, and whatever else he could do to get ND in the news and talked about. The man put his starting backfield on horses for a newspaper story, for crying out loud. Gimmick, or iconic image? Guess that’s in the eye of the beholder.
MarkG
Good point. As the SB police lieutenant in the stadium said to me during the Navy game, if field turf has been available when ND stadium was built, Rockne would have put in field turf.
IrishTimer
I think it’s worth pointing out(if it hasn’t been already) that Holtz has been one of the biggest supporters of the upgrades to Notre Dame in relation to the training table, The Gug, etc.So even the guy that “traditionalists” like to point to is behind the University moving forward.
kyndfan
I want to see field turf. I want to see jumbotrons. (preferably those like at the new meadow lands stadium.) Tex is right, these trivial things are not tradition. ND’s tradition is one of excellence. Excellence on and off the field. Win and everything else will not matter to the majority of fans. In today’s landscape I would add; win without breaking the rules, but that should not be a concern. Kelly is a moral man and he understands what ND is all about. Win and all this bickering will be silenced. Can anyone imagine people complaining about the new jumbotron with ND ranked in the top 5? Those who do complain would be laughed at and told to quit cryin. The only tradition I am concerned about maintaining is winning National Championships. Its been a long dry spell and I’m done with it.
Dan ('98)
Of all the innovations, Field Turf would bother me the most, just because there’s nothing like the musky smell of sod on a football field on a fall afternoon. I never played, but I’ve been on sidelines as a student manager and later as a reporter, and it’s just such a distinct aroma. I can’t smell it from section 100-something at ND Stadium, but I can imagine it still.
I also don’t really have a problem with “people I’ve never heard of” on the 20-yard line. Imagine the thrill for them to be recognized like that. (Plus, they’d never really show the controversial — or under review — plays on it. Maybe after the review was completed and decision announced.)
But otherwise, you make some great points here. Well done, and well said.
NDtex
I disagree with the fact that under review plays or controversial replays won’t be shown. In other sports, like basketball, it’s been common practice to not show; however, football’s practice has drastically changed with the advent of instant replay reviews.
I can’t even count how many times every week that you hear a crowd react to a play under review or one that should be. If ND decided to forgo that practice it would be like ceding a piece of home field advantage. Of course, that would all be under the assumption that a screen is even up.
I know the 20 yard line thing is great. I managed the men’s and women’s golf teams my senior year and they love it, but they did mention it was a tad awkward that no one knew who they were. I’d love to see a video package of the teams/people that are honored, ending with a shot of them standing on the 20. I think the overall reactions would be so much better.
kyndfan
I can tell you that at Louisville football games they show the crowd almost instantly what happened.
SH
Not that this proves your point as an n of 1 but at the Wake Forest game this past weekend they showed several replays of reviewed plays.
Matt Q. (DMQ)
You would say no to Field Turf because of a lost “aroma?” What the hell is this, football or an ad for flavored instant coffees?
SH
Well we all know what to buy Dan for Christmas this year – a yard of sod.
GB
I don’t understand what happens on the 20 yard line. Am I missing something?
slu-irish
I’m sorry, but I’m failing to realize the benefit of the jumbotron everyone here is obsessed over. I’ve been to other stadiums and really the only thing it’s good for is replays, but it takes away from the uniqueness and mystique of playing back when we were great. I’m a student and the pro’s I see are increased ad space, replays, and some videos they can throw on there because to your point everyone does it and therefore so should ND.
Are those really the reasons you need this jumbotron? For money to the school? A replay? “Atmosphere”?
If Notre Dame wins the atmosphere will be there, but it’s tough for Notre Dame atmosphere to become Alabama when fans have a feeling of let down every year since the 80’s.
Sorry, but I think the stadium is great… we just need to win. With winning will come the buzz around the stadium, recruits, and satisfaction from all the people calling for change. A jumbotron and turf don’t change our record.
NDtex
My point isn’t that “everyone is doing it and so should we”, my point is that people too readily dismiss such an idea because of a misguided idea of tradition.
I fail to see how a technology addition to the stadium somehow takes away our mystique. I mentioned Kyle Field for this exact reason, the atmosphere of that game was amazing and the jumbotron didn’t take away from the yell leaders getting the entire student section in unified chants.
Winning is always the ultimate factor in determining a buzz around any program, but additions to the stadium’s atmosphere sure wouldn’t hurt it in my opinion.
SLU-IRISH
agree to disagree. I think not having the flasy technology is what makes ND unique and also I still believe winning is the ultimate factor. It’s tough for me to be amped up in week 8 when we have 3 losses and are playing Navy. Do that every year and it’s even harder. In 2005 when we actually were good and were playing a good team then the atmosphere was there… but name a time late in the season where we were top 10-15 and were playing a team equally ranked that high. SEC teams have those games… we don’t.
As for the stadium… I, although a bit of a stretch, compare it to Wrigley and Fenway. I don’t believe either of those ballparks have jumbotrons yet their fans aren’t calling for them for technology upgrades. If safety of the stadium wasn’t a concern I doubt people would ever ask for those ballparks to change.
trey
I disagree. I think flashy would be awesome and just the kick-in-the-ass that most of our fans need. We can be flashy without being GAUDY. We can be innovative without appealing to the Least Common Denominator. We can be modern without losing our tradition. IMO, that is the mystique that Lou Holtz talks about when mentioning the school. “For those who have never been to Notre Dame, no explanation will fully explain it. For those who have seen it, no explanation is needed.”
The Biscuit
How is a jumbotron ‘flashy technology’? These have been around for freaking decades. This isn’t flashy in the least, unless someone sets out to make it that way deliberately. And this is ND, we all know it would be anything but.
Erik '04
I know I’m being intentionally antagonistic here, but your examples or Wrigley and Fenway don’t fit. Baseball replays are boring and unnecessary. Perhaps you’d want to see a replay of a close play at 1st base or a wicked curveball for the strikeout, but football replays are much more interesting and common throughout the game. You want to see the big hit, the great catch, the shot of the guy dragging a foot on the sideline, the great hole the O-line created, or the great cut by a running back. Pretty much every play in baseball is routine. A routine grounder. A routine flyball. Ho hum.
I guess my point is that the ballparks you mention can keep their mystique and not lose out on much. ND is keeping theirs, and particularly missing out on something dynamic and interesting. I’m fine with agreeing to disagree, I just wanted to counterpoint your examples.
Erik '04
“examples of” not “examples or”
GB
No Jumbotron is also one of the reasons why fans do not cheer so much or as load. Other stadiims that have less of a winning tradition have more spirit in the stands. More cheering leads to the players and other fans getting fired up which leads to more victories.
stewvee
Amen, bro.
kyndfan
No, but they may increase ND’s chances of getting certain top recruits. Kids like it big and flashy.