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	<title>
	Comments on: Declaratory Judgment	</title>
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	<link>https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/</link>
	<description>A Notre Dame Football Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:20:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Bayou Irish		</title>
		<link>https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229686</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bayou Irish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/?p=15713#comment-229686</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jere: Okay. I didn&#039;t take a lunch so I could crunch the numbers. Using cfbstats.com&#039;s &quot;scoring offense,&quot; Notre Dame has played the #81, #65, #110, #56, #63, #62, #64, #13, #106 and #70 offenses (Navy, Purdue, MSU, Michigan, BYU, Stanford, Miami, OK, BC and Pitt). That averages out to a 69.

Alabama averages 59.1 as an FYI. So, I think the comparison works out in favor of ND -- &#039;Bama lost to the best offense it faced (Texas A&#038;M) while ND stiffled its best opponent, Oklahoma. 

Another thing: when LSU throttled Oregon, everyone chalked it up to &quot;they hadn&#039;t played an SEC DEFENSE.&quot; Now that ND is putting up SEC defensive numbers versus similar offenses, where&#039;s that talk now?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jere: Okay. I didn&#8217;t take a lunch so I could crunch the numbers. Using cfbstats.com&#8217;s &#8220;scoring offense,&#8221; Notre Dame has played the #81, #65, #110, #56, #63, #62, #64, #13, #106 and #70 offenses (Navy, Purdue, MSU, Michigan, BYU, Stanford, Miami, OK, BC and Pitt). That averages out to a 69.</p>
<p>Alabama averages 59.1 as an FYI. So, I think the comparison works out in favor of ND &#8212; &#8216;Bama lost to the best offense it faced (Texas A&amp;M) while ND stiffled its best opponent, Oklahoma. </p>
<p>Another thing: when LSU throttled Oregon, everyone chalked it up to &#8220;they hadn&#8217;t played an SEC DEFENSE.&#8221; Now that ND is putting up SEC defensive numbers versus similar offenses, where&#8217;s that talk now?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Themidnightrambler		</title>
		<link>https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229685</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Themidnightrambler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/?p=15713#comment-229685</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[this is strictly hypothetical....supposing we get snubbed and play in whatever bowl being undefeated and win...do we get a share of the NC? iguess it depends upon who we play but at this point im not sure. I cannot understand how the polls have us as substantial inferiors to KS and ORE. p.s. I think we&#039;d beat both GO IRISH]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is strictly hypothetical&#8230;.supposing we get snubbed and play in whatever bowl being undefeated and win&#8230;do we get a share of the NC? iguess it depends upon who we play but at this point im not sure. I cannot understand how the polls have us as substantial inferiors to KS and ORE. p.s. I think we&#8217;d beat both GO IRISH</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jere		</title>
		<link>https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229683</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jere]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/?p=15713#comment-229683</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s important to point out that the rankings cited were at the time of the game. A more compelling argument, in my opinion, is to reference the current rankings, of which ND has beaten the #12, #14, and #23 ranked teams (BCS) while Kansas State has beaten the #12, #23, and #24 ranked teams.

Additionally, you go through great pains to show that the KSU and Oregon offenses have played against weak defenses. However, you have not shown that ND&#039;s defense has played against strong offenses. I don&#039;t know how the numbers work out, but you at least have to apply the same analysis to both situations.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s important to point out that the rankings cited were at the time of the game. A more compelling argument, in my opinion, is to reference the current rankings, of which ND has beaten the #12, #14, and #23 ranked teams (BCS) while Kansas State has beaten the #12, #23, and #24 ranked teams.</p>
<p>Additionally, you go through great pains to show that the KSU and Oregon offenses have played against weak defenses. However, you have not shown that ND&#8217;s defense has played against strong offenses. I don&#8217;t know how the numbers work out, but you at least have to apply the same analysis to both situations.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bayou Irish		</title>
		<link>https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229682</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bayou Irish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/?p=15713#comment-229682</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Eff it. You&#039;re right. The players on the field. I keep forgetting about the players on the field. These are the same players on the field not scoring on ND? These are the same players on the field with top 10 defenses that we&#039;re playing? These are the same players on the field who are 10-0? These are the same players on the field named Te&#039;o, Golson, Nix and Tuitt? This whole argument has devolved into a Choose Your Own Adventure book where at page 11 you have the question: &quot;Are you Notre Dame?&quot; And the answer: &quot;If yes, turn to page YOU SUCK BECAUSE NOTRE DAME&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eff it. You&#8217;re right. The players on the field. I keep forgetting about the players on the field. These are the same players on the field not scoring on ND? These are the same players on the field with top 10 defenses that we&#8217;re playing? These are the same players on the field who are 10-0? These are the same players on the field named Te&#8217;o, Golson, Nix and Tuitt? This whole argument has devolved into a Choose Your Own Adventure book where at page 11 you have the question: &#8220;Are you Notre Dame?&#8221; And the answer: &#8220;If yes, turn to page YOU SUCK BECAUSE NOTRE DAME&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: NDtex		</title>
		<link>https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229681</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NDtex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/?p=15713#comment-229681</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229676&quot;&gt;Linus&lt;/a&gt;.

You do realize that SEC teams that have recently won titles live on low MOV right? Just take a look at Aurbun in 2010. They had victories against sub-500 teams that were within a TD.

Why do they get the benefit of the doubt and ND doesn&#039;t? It&#039;s absurd. Especially when ND is flat out not letting opponents score.

And if you&#039;d like to talk about MOV, let&#039;s talk about how Oregon only beat their best opponent, USC by 11. ND beat their best opponent, OU by 17. But I guess they are better since they scored 60? Please.

Continuing with MOV, K-State only beat North freakin&#039; Texas by 14, OU by 5, Iowa State by 6, and TCU by 13.

Notre Dame has better performances against far higher quality opponents.

And the players on the field?! LOLOLOL -- you must not watch ND football at all and/or only watch highlights of teams like Oregon.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229676">Linus</a>.</p>
<p>You do realize that SEC teams that have recently won titles live on low MOV right? Just take a look at Aurbun in 2010. They had victories against sub-500 teams that were within a TD.</p>
<p>Why do they get the benefit of the doubt and ND doesn&#8217;t? It&#8217;s absurd. Especially when ND is flat out not letting opponents score.</p>
<p>And if you&#8217;d like to talk about MOV, let&#8217;s talk about how Oregon only beat their best opponent, USC by 11. ND beat their best opponent, OU by 17. But I guess they are better since they scored 60? Please.</p>
<p>Continuing with MOV, K-State only beat North freakin&#8217; Texas by 14, OU by 5, Iowa State by 6, and TCU by 13.</p>
<p>Notre Dame has better performances against far higher quality opponents.</p>
<p>And the players on the field?! LOLOLOL &#8212; you must not watch ND football at all and/or only watch highlights of teams like Oregon.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DS		</title>
		<link>https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229680</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/?p=15713#comment-229680</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229679&quot;&gt;DS&lt;/a&gt;.

This was in reply to Linus.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229679">DS</a>.</p>
<p>This was in reply to Linus.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DS		</title>
		<link>https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229679</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/?p=15713#comment-229679</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Margin of victory is a poor metric, as it does not take into account the poor defensive opposition.  Would you give more credit to Oregon beating the Pittsburgh Steelers&#039; Steel Curtain by 1 or for Oregon beating St. Mary&#039;s High School for the Bling by 6 million?  I know I use extremes in the example, yet the logic still applies...weak opponents and weak defenses give up more points, regardless of the style of offensive plays (non huddle vs. clock managing ground games).

Players on the field has nothing to do with showing a team&#039;s greatness over another team.  I know it is the NFL, however, remember the Superbowl with 19 - 0 New England?  Larger star quality players against the Giants, yet who won?  

Also, if your opponent is weak enough to not stop a 2nd or 3rd string, then can you say with any validity that your team is playing tough, quality opponents?  And does the running up of scores against such weak teams show how strong a team is?  It shows your team is better than a weak team.  Is margin of victory against weak teams any indication of how how your team will fair against any of the top 10 teams?  Not at all.

This is why the Human Polls in college football is the weak link of the system.  At the end of the season, the polls look far different than preseason.  So why do you base your belief in the strength of your team based on faulty opinions?  Oregon and K-State are higher ranked than ND for 2 reasons...1) they started higher in preseason ranking, and 2) (in Oregon&#039;s case) the perception voters have of margin of victory.  If you eliminate those 2 and rankings are done at the end of the year, objectively, ND would come out higher than at least one, if not both of those teams.  That would be based on the metrics that you have...Number of Wins, Points allowed, Yards Allowed, Strength of opponent (SoS).  This still does not mean ND is the best in the nation, since neither of the 3 teams played each other.  Just means the rankings would be different.

Since we are dealing with the system we have now, then it goes back to the metrics that count in figuring out who plays in the NCG.  Margin of victory and style points is not and never will be valid metrics to this end.  The &quot;Eye Test&quot; is so subjective, and wholly inaccurate.  However, it is what it is, as voters will not change now.  Yet, please stop saying that those are valid metrics.  Otherwise, you just sound like a 10 year old that still clings to his blanket and is impressed with flashy uniforms.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Margin of victory is a poor metric, as it does not take into account the poor defensive opposition.  Would you give more credit to Oregon beating the Pittsburgh Steelers&#8217; Steel Curtain by 1 or for Oregon beating St. Mary&#8217;s High School for the Bling by 6 million?  I know I use extremes in the example, yet the logic still applies&#8230;weak opponents and weak defenses give up more points, regardless of the style of offensive plays (non huddle vs. clock managing ground games).</p>
<p>Players on the field has nothing to do with showing a team&#8217;s greatness over another team.  I know it is the NFL, however, remember the Superbowl with 19 &#8211; 0 New England?  Larger star quality players against the Giants, yet who won?  </p>
<p>Also, if your opponent is weak enough to not stop a 2nd or 3rd string, then can you say with any validity that your team is playing tough, quality opponents?  And does the running up of scores against such weak teams show how strong a team is?  It shows your team is better than a weak team.  Is margin of victory against weak teams any indication of how how your team will fair against any of the top 10 teams?  Not at all.</p>
<p>This is why the Human Polls in college football is the weak link of the system.  At the end of the season, the polls look far different than preseason.  So why do you base your belief in the strength of your team based on faulty opinions?  Oregon and K-State are higher ranked than ND for 2 reasons&#8230;1) they started higher in preseason ranking, and 2) (in Oregon&#8217;s case) the perception voters have of margin of victory.  If you eliminate those 2 and rankings are done at the end of the year, objectively, ND would come out higher than at least one, if not both of those teams.  That would be based on the metrics that you have&#8230;Number of Wins, Points allowed, Yards Allowed, Strength of opponent (SoS).  This still does not mean ND is the best in the nation, since neither of the 3 teams played each other.  Just means the rankings would be different.</p>
<p>Since we are dealing with the system we have now, then it goes back to the metrics that count in figuring out who plays in the NCG.  Margin of victory and style points is not and never will be valid metrics to this end.  The &#8220;Eye Test&#8221; is so subjective, and wholly inaccurate.  However, it is what it is, as voters will not change now.  Yet, please stop saying that those are valid metrics.  Otherwise, you just sound like a 10 year old that still clings to his blanket and is impressed with flashy uniforms.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Linus		</title>
		<link>https://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/11/13/declaratory-judgment/#comment-229676</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/?p=15713#comment-229676</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What the computers don&#039;t see is (A) margin of victory and (B) the players on the field. Notre Dame doesn&#039;t hold up to UO or KSU in either category. Sorry.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the computers don&#8217;t see is (A) margin of victory and (B) the players on the field. Notre Dame doesn&#8217;t hold up to UO or KSU in either category. Sorry.</p>
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