The debate is finished.
Understand that this, Notre Dame Football, is important to real life – my real life, anyway. I was raised by iconoclasts to be an iconoclast. I could hardly manage to complete readings of Beowulf due to all of the eye rolling. I met my first screening of Hoosiers with smirks. One of my personal favorite insults is “hero-maker.” But Notre Dame withstood my proclivities. Notre Dame, despite all the rot and fear in this world, has overcome my own inclinations toward skepticism, and the most public facing element of Notre Dame, for better or worse, is the football program. You cannot believe in Notre Dame and all it stands for while accepting a mediocre football program. It’s not that all other elements of Notre Dame should take a back seat to the performance of the football program. It’s that the football program must seek excellence with the same urgency as all other elements of Notre Dame. Back when Ty Willingham, Kevin White, and Monk Malloy were doing their best to kill off the football program, many argued that it was akin to eliminating one of the pillars of Notre Dame. Really, a mediocre football program is more akin to a massive crack in the foundation of the institution. And so we must demand better. We must demand excellence. We must demand that the program be lead by those who are capable of excellence. Charlie Weis does not meet that criteria.
I will not vilify Charlie Weis. He’s a fellow Notre Dame alum. He probably works as hard as any other head coach in the nation. And, frankly, I kind of like the guy. So if you’re here to read about how awful a person Charlie Weis happens to be, or how I can’t stand his arrogance, or my recount of various Charlie Weis quotations that look so naive in hindsight, then you’ll be disappointed. I’ll leave that sort of thing to the cognitively weak among us while they pock sentences with all-caps words and multiple question marks. It doesn’t serve any purpose. Charlie Weis’ own record says all that needs to be said. Weis’ loss to a 2-8 Syracuse and a fired coach with a career .200 winning record was simply the gratuitous exclamation mark on a simple premise: Charlie Weis is not a good enough college football coach to head the Notre Dame football program.
Regular readers of HLS already know that I’m pretty bummed right now, and not just because Notre Dame lost to the hapless Orange. I’m bummed because I really wanted Weis to succeed. Never before – and hopefully never again – have I found a head coach of Notre Dame so relatable, and so my faith and hope in Weis was really built upon that probably unavoidable belief that, given the right set of circumstances and all the right breaks, I too could have been the head coach of Notre Dame one day. Charlie Weis is the manifestation of daydreams that most of “us” have all the time. The problem is that the daydreams become a nightmare when applied to the real world. The results we’ve gotten with Weis at the helm of the Irish aren’t all that different than what we’d get if you or I were in Weis’ position, and that’s just not good enough.
Notre Dame’s goal is not to be “great” someday. Notre Dame’s goal, every year, reasonable or not, is to win a National Championship. And in today’s landscape, given the realpolitik of college football, nothing but a perfect, undefeated season will suffice to garner the Irish that achievement. The Irish will not get a 1-loss national championship like certain SEC teams. And so the Irish can’t have that hard-to-explain loss on their resume. Today’s loss to Syracuse is similar to hard-to-explain losses Weis has suffered every season he’s been in charge – even in his “good” seasons. It’s time to eliminate those hard-to-explain losses, and unfortunately Weis is all out of answers.
Admirably, Weis painted himself in a corner with his biggest success since taking the job at Notre Dame: recruiting. Right up to the day Weis was introduced as Head Coach of Football at Notre Dame, pundits tried to dismiss the Irish as has-beens simply by virtue of the “fact” that the Irish couldn’t put together top-flight recruiting classes. Weis, despite all of his faults on the field, has shut those pundits up. So much so that today a loss to a 2-8 Syracuse with a roster of guys that Notre Dame probably wouldn’t have even bothered to recruit is simply inexcusable. Thanks to Weis, the Notre Dame job is far more attractive than it ever was after Davie or Willingham. Any competent potential replacement will be able to see that not only can Notre Dame compete in recruiting, they can outright dominate recruiting, particularly if they succeed on the field of play as well. Any competent observer can already see that Notre Dame is far too talented to be playing as they do.
Any time I see the movie Crimson Tide on the television, I’ll stop and watch. Not only is it a great film because of the acting (nobody plays Gene Hackman better than Gene Hackman, and only four or five people can pull off a good Denzel Washington), but the moral of the story is equal parts troubling and fascinating. Despite all the work and all the best efforts of extremely smart, disciplined people, things can still go horribly wrong. I believe that’s what’s happened with Weis at Notre Dame. I believe he’s really as smart as so many people accuse him of believing himself to be. I know for a fact that he works harder than most. I believe he loves his alma mater. I don’t doubt that he’s given this job his best shot. And I know that it’s all gone awry. Sometimes the best intentions coupled with the best efforts still fail. That doesn’t mean that the goals are unachievable by anyone. It just means the goals are unachievable by those currently undertaking them. When that happens, questions must be asked, and assessments must be done. Changes must be made. Otherwise you run the risk of stagnating and dying while standing still.
The devil we know is not better than the devil we don’t. There is little evidence to cause belief that the Notre Dame administration will succeed in “hitting a home run” with another coaching search and hiring process, but there’s also little evidence to indicate that any result of such a process would result in worse than what we already have. As stated before, Weis has already done the university a tremendous service in making the job more attractive than it was when he arrived on campus. If nothing else, even a moderately capable athletic department and school administration would succeed in attracting a coach who has a track record of doing “more with less” at another program. That said, the goal should be to hit that home run. No name should fail consideration unless that name has too much moral ambiguity attached. Today’s best collegiate coaches read as a list of who-wasn’ts-back-when. Pete Carrol got the job at Southern Cal largely because nobody else wanted it and he happened to not be doing anything at the time. Bob Stoops had no track record of success as a HC because he was a coordinator at Florida when he was hired. But these coaching success stories were only struck upon because the programs were willing to make changes. Notre Dame must continue the search for their own success and then guard that success jealously.
As Lou Holtz has stated this evening, there is no reason Notre Dame cannot compete for a national championship. Even accepting that “parity” in college football is here to stay, the university holds many advantages over almost every other program in the country. Particularly if parity really does exist, then no other program will ever be able to garner a history or tradition to rival Notre Dame. Notre Dame already gained these advantages before many programs even became “serious” about football. And while the current landscape may present a greater challenge to winning a national championship than in eras past, it is that history and that tradition of Notre Dame that should make this institution relish meeting and beating these greater challenges.
Fear of attrition by ND’s student-athletes should not even enter into the equation when deciding upon a coaching change. ND’s student-athletes, unlike at many programs, actually are a real part of the student body, and as such have more at stake than their “football lives.” Once we all stop looking a the worst-case scenario, we realize that while some on the current roster may decide that the new coaching regime doesn’t meet their particular tastes, simply keeping the current regime and allowing all that talent on the roster to continue to flounder serves as a bigger threat to the long-term health of the program.
You cannot lose to a 2-8 Syracuse as 20 point home favorites and be a success at Notre Dame. You cannot lose more games in 2 seasons than any other Notre Dame team in history. You cannot lose 3 games in which you held double-digit leads, no matter the youth of your depth chart. You cannot gain just 41 yards on the 108th ranked rushing defense in the country while giving up 12 tackles to Arthur Jones, a defensive tackle with only 39 tackles on the season, and hope to retain the faith of the faithful. You cannot try to answer big-picture questions with minutiae. The evidence has mounted and the scales have been tipped.
Last weekend, Kirk Herbstreit paid Notre Dame perhaps the ultimate insult when he rhetorically asked, “what’s the big deal” in reference to the Irish’s struggles. He pointed out that over the last decade or so, Notre Dame averaged only 7 wins per season, and so Irish fans should not be “frustrated” by “more of the same.” It’s not surprising that such a loser-mentality should be the sentiment held by an outsider, but I fear that such sentiment may leak into the Notre Dame fanbase as well. Previous failures are no reason to accept future failures. Previous failures exist only to motivate future success. If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again. But for God’s sake, try something new.
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san diego irish
Amen.
BJGator88
I agree. This loss was inexcusable. But Charlie Weis deserves one last shot. After we get pummeled by USC, we will play in the Sun Bowl, and with Michael Floyd back, I think we’ll have a shot to beat what will likely be a less talented opponent. If Charlie Weis gets us that bowl victory, he will have earned another year. When I look at this program, everything seems to be pointing upward. If Charlie Weis gets fired, the great things he’s done for this program will be erased, and we’ll be forced to start over again. I don’t want another coaching change. Programs that switch head coaches every 3-5 years are terrible programs. I don’t want to see Notre Dame go down the tubes. Back up off the edge, mq. Much remains to be seen about what Charlie can do. Give him time to develop his young talent. If he can’t turn this team into winners by next year, then can him. But now is not the time to make your judgment. Continuity is what this program has lacked since Holtz left. Too much turnover will relegate Notre Dame to a state of permanent irrelevance. Keep the faith…
The Biscuit
I agree that yesterday was a mess. That we have let games slip through our fingers. That we can should and will be better. I also believe that Charlie’s first two seasons, and amazing recruiting success (assuming rumblings like this don’t scare kids off – just sayin) has earned him next year. All of our issues this year come down to youth and that bears out in one glaring place – inconsistent play. For a drive our O will look like a well-oiled machine. That shows the potential. Then it will fall apart for 2 drives – that’s the lack of experience, coming out in inconsistent play. The coaching is the same – great, then bad, then good, then great, to bad again. CW has earned, and will get, another year to prove himself. Lately? Not so great. But recent events shouldn’t be what decides his fate. Besides, who out there would be better? Especially considering the damage it would do to recruiting, no one. Weis stays.
The Biscuit
I agree that yesterday was a mess. That we have let games slip through our fingers. That we can should and will be better. I also believe that Charlie’s first two seasons, and amazing recruiting success (assuming rumblings like this don’t scare kids off – just sayin) has earned him next year. All of our issues this year come down to youth and that bears out in one glaring place – inconsistent play. For a drive our O will look like a well-oiled machine. That shows the potential. Then it will fall apart for 2 drives – that’s the lack of experience, coming out in inconsistent play. The coaching is the same – great, then bad, then good, then great, to bad again. CW has earned, and will get, another year to prove himself. Lately? Not so great. But recent events alone shouldn’t be what decides his fate. Besides, who out there would be better? Especially considering the damage it would do to recruiting, no one. Weis stays.
Domerva
Regarding giving Weis one more year, I believe you must ask yourself one question – IS Weis capable of winning a MNC. If the answer is no then he needs to go now. One more year is not going to make a difference.
undnut
Greg Robinson is available.
The Truth_
Thanks for removing my post. So much for First Amendment rights and a democratic society.
domer.mq
Yeah, “The Truth,” because it’s possible for a private entity to deny you your First Ammendment rights and blog comments have something at all to do with democracy.
You have to be one of the dumbest non-single-celled animals on the planet.
The Truth_
I agree, the First Amendment comment went too far. I retract them.
All I am saying is that if this site can complain about people saying that ND’s schedule is too easy, and THEN turn around and stump for ND getting into an “easy” bowl game to break their 15 year bowl game losing streak, I should be able to post comments as well expressing my opinion.
By the way, ND fans – you got your wish. The Cotton Bowl and/or Gator Bowl won’t be selecting you now. Good luck in the San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl.
Father Birdonnell
A darned fine blog post, but I continue to agree with the Biscuit. Weis is no Willingham, is recruiting, is playing a ton of youth and seniority with lesser talent. ND got upset. It happens. And God willing, it will happen less. And I’m frustrated as hell, but there’s something to be said for patience, and not turning Notre Dame into a 3-4 year carousel job that becomes less and less desirable as the years go by.
qb
even knowing we will go get another record pummeling by SC after this shameful embarrassment, charlie apologizers think he deserves another year (after last year’s record debacle to begin with). it will never stop. you have to take the blinders off, admit you made a mistake backing him and move on for the good of the program
mark
Alabama used to be a carousel job, so did Texas Tech, and USC back in the day. No one, especially me, wants to be kicking people out the door every 3-4 years. However, good candidates, capable leaders, recruiters, and motivators are out there. Letting Butch Davis get away could prove to be a fatal flaw. This man has already stolen recruits away from Charlie, so if that’s your only concern, it’s time to make a change.
You know what REALLY bothered me Saturday? The Fans. I’m not talking about this snowball crap, drunk students were hurling snowballs aimlessly from 50 rows up, who cares. I’m talking about how it’s now illegal to stand up and make noise. I was yelled at Saturday for standing up… DURING A TV TIMEOUT. Really?! I’m not obscene. I don’t curse. I stay positive even when we’re failing to putaway the worst team in America. However, I was yelled at, told to sit down and called a jerk the whole game. Lack of success is one thing. But the attitude of these rich lazy old fans is infuriating. This is not a day at the opera. It’s a damn football game. It’s been bad in the past years, but this is so far from my birthday in 93 when we played FSU it’s a joke. Everything about Saturday made me sick. Why does no one care?!
P.S. Lou WOULD NOT accept the Sun Bowl. This team in no way deserves the reward of a 13th game.
cv
You have to admit that CW botched the first two OL and DL classes. He is living with those mistakes now and next year also.
Bad Kermit
Domer.mq, I couldn’t agree more. It’s admirable how long a lot of people have supported Weis. He’s a good human being, and he’s a hell of a recruiter. But he’s not a college football coach. He’s Ron Zook. I hate to say it, but let’s get the non-smarmy-asshole version of Urban Meyer at ND so they can win the NC.
The Biscuit
Two things. Even if Weis ends up not being the guy, I will not at any point say I was wrong to support a coach that I think is a good man for the job. I can be wrong on whether or not he IS good, but not in supporting him. 2 – BK, who is the non-asshole version of Meyer??? One guy said Butch Davis is an option. Really? What info do we have that says he’s available/interested? Bc everything I have read is that he’s staying put in NC. Warmer weather, easier recruiting and lower expectations/pressure. Again, find me a better option that takes into account the unavoidable recruiting hit (we have the num 7 class in the coutry signing in Feb) and I will at least acknowledge that its worth exploring. But that person doesn’t exist. PS- I don’t support Weis bc of some do-good feeling I have or some sympathetic lean – I do so selfishly, bc I think he’s our best shot. Period.
Bad Kermit
I hate that “Well, then, who should have the job?” rebuttal more than anything. Weis should be allowed to keep his job just because you and I can’t come up with the name of a replacement? I’m sure there are viable candidates out there, and it’s not my job to have a list of them.
The Biscuit
That isn’t my reason, that’s a reason. I have outlined the others as well. But unless you want another Ty, this IS a factor whether you like it or not.
domer.mq
Biscuit,
Would a list of coaches who wouldn’t allow ND to lose to a 2-8 Syacuse suffice? Because I can start that, but I’m not sure what the character count limit on comments is. I’ll have to check.
domer.mq
Father Birdonnell,
I know the Irish get upset on occasion. We’re still wincing every time ABC shows us video of the ’93 BC game. But how many times does it need to keep happening? Navy last year, Syracuse this year, MSU in ’05.
And I get the idea that stability is good for a team, but how many programs are keeping under-performing coaches on the payroll these days? Gone are the days of really any program accepting a coach that turns in 7 win seasons over and over again, unless you’re Duke or Vandy, I suppose. The coaching carousel has become this accelerated Darwinian process. I’d really rather not get left behind in this arms race.
Patience is fine, but I had patience with Weis going 7 and 5. Going 6 and 6 by virtue of losing to Syracuse though… The only thing that could have been worse is losing to Washington this year, and they just lost to WSU this weekend.
I love Weis. I don’t want him to be fired, but I think the program needs it.
Adam
I fail to see how anyone can stay on the Weis bandwagon after what happened yesterday. I had been on said bandwagon, even through the debacles of the past two seasons, but this loss is too much. Yes, I know the team is young/leaderless/whatever, but those reasons alone are not why we’re 6-5 right now. There have been no displays of coaching ability since the development of Quinn. None. A good coach will correctly manage his team, working to minimize its weaknesses and bring its strengths to the front, and a great coach will do it in such a way that he’ll win some games that he shouldn’t win on paper. Weis hasn’t shown that he can do such a thing if he doesn’t have a pre-developed team. For that reason, as well as the fact that we apparently can’t develop four and five star prospects, that I have no faith in Weis, and view next season with dread.
If the University hadn’t signed such a near-sighted contract, I have no doubt that he would would be gone by Monday. They aren’t going to fire him until pulls the same shit next season, which is unfortunate. Losing prospects be damned, we need a HC with some sort of ability.
Mark
I’m the “guy” who said Butch Davis. Why would he leave? He left Miami to go to Cleveland. That nullifies everything you just said about lower expectations, weather, and gives him a reason to be interested (the opportunity to win a NC and money.) That’s the evidence we have, HISTORY. “I am not going to be the coach at Alabama, is that what you want me to say?” – Nick Saban. So everything I’ve heard from every coach in America says he’s staying put. Agreed that the “who can we get to replace him?” argument is completely passing the buck. Who can we get to replace him? Well it doesn’t even matter if he can recruit, a monkey with a clipboard could lose to Syracuse. If you agree that ND is not playing to it’s potential, there is no other choice. And I re-iterate. They should not accept this bowl invitation.
VicPaul
Oh Hell, just bring back Lou and get it over with. If Joe Pa can come back for another year so can Holtz.
el kona
Finally, HLS yields to reason.
If Ty didn’t deserve another year, Charlie doesn’t deserve another year. In fact, his performance is even more disappointing, because he has done less with more. The man can’t head-coach a football team. Perhaps he’ll reveal himself to be a good offensive coordinator again. But he is not made to run a college program, and make all the important decisions that go along with it. He is indecisive, uninspiring and, finally, incompetent.
solo076
The landscape of NCAA football has changed. Good recruits go where they can get playing time and exposure. ND will still be able to get recruits. Ty just chose not to go after them. Needed is a coach who can do more with less. Should they have locked up CW for such a long contract? No, half maybe but we are a little stuck at the moment. can we cut(?)..sure we can but how much worse could it be for another year? Michigan can tell you all about coaching changes, and Rod did more with less prior to the Wolverines now look at him. Point is it cant get much worse so why not take chances for another year? We pretty much can agree that the program was in ruins prior to CW and another year would not hurt. Think of all the first time worst(s) in history we have had the last two years, are there any more out there? Mark-points well taken but take the bowl its on par with how the team has performed and the kids deserve a high note of some kind, maybe then they can play with a sustained level of emotion.
Greg
What if you are all wrong? Maybe Weis will learn from this year. Maybe he wasn’t good enough this year. Maybe he will be good enough next year. You can’t tell me you know for a fact that he can never win a NC at ND just because he lost to SU. People talk about ND being short-sighted with the contract extension. Look in the mirror. Maybe the fans calling for Weis to be fired are being short-sighted. Maybe a year of maturity for everybody on the team and the coaching staff is the difference between 6-6 and 12-0. Nobody can say for sure it is not. I think you knew Willingham was never going to win. Same with Davie. I don’t get that feeling with Weis. I get the feeling that he is a developing head coach with the potential to get us to the top. The frustrating thing about Weis to most people is they think past results are indication of future performance. But with someone as intelligent and hard-working as Weis, I don’t think that is the case. That being said, lose more than 1 game next year and I will support a change.
Adam
Greg, the loss to Syracuse wasn’t some absurd fluke in the vein of USC-Stanford last year. The issue isn’t particularly about losing to Syracuse per se. That game just happened to be the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. It was the latest pathetic effort in a season full of underperformance. If we had closed out the games we should have this season and then lost this past weekend, the fanbase would be understandingly angered, but you would not find such a broad, serious consensus that Weis cannot successfully coach this program. As it stands, aside from recruiting and use of a pro-ready QB in Quinn, Weis has failed to show any sort of coaching brilliance, or even any coaching ability.
Mark Makers
If the 49 yarder carries another yard or if Maust doesn’t bobble the snap, the posts would be a lot different. Keep things in perspective. We suck, but the level of despair would be an order lower.
2M/year is way too steep for on-the-job training. We been hosed. But, if he stays another year, he may figure out a thing or two and may get to where he can compete. I only hope, because he ain’t getting canned.
domer.mq
Mark Makers,
You can’t play the “if only” game. If only ND hadn’t forced the fumble by SDSU at the 1″ line, ND would have lost to SDSU. That would be 2 losses to fired coaches in the season.
I hope if Weis is retained, he learns and we have a successful season, but I’m done trying to find reasons to believe. How about just win and show me?
san diego irish
You all make a lot of good points for and against Weis continuing. It’s not an easy decision. Until BC I was confident that things were headed in the right direction. On the one hand, I can see drastic improvement next year with better offensive line play, which could happen with a new offensive line coach. On the other hand has there been any sign at all this year of a sophisticated, creative, unpredictable offense? With the exception of Tate and Floyd out running and out jumping guys on fly patterns and fades,and some nice throws by Jimmy, there’s not much there. Stretch run right and left, screen right and left, outs, quick slants, flies, fades and Rudolph up the seam. It seems we only run about six or eight plays. Considering that you can’t run at all, it’s not hard to defend against 6 or 8 pass plays. Maybe Jimmy hasn’t had time to master enough of the playbook yet, but I don’t remember being all that impressed with Weis’ creativity even in the BQ years. I keep expecting him to open the playbook with all the speed we now have on the field, but it never seems to happen. When I think about it that way, I’m not sure an improved running game will be enough to get us past 9 or 10 wins even with an experienced, mature team.
www.southbendblarney.com
I love Irish football. I want to believe that Weis has shown Notre Dame can still recruit with the best. Rivals says yes, but the Irish don’t look all that athletically gifted on the field (except Floyd and Tate).
Also, from an unbiased opinion, what recruiting advantages do the Irish have over a Southern Cal or other warm weather power? Or even an Ohio State? The Irish once had mystique over everyone (like the Yankees), but it is fading.
Listened to Cowherd today, and he brought up some good points. ND is academically strict, small, isolated, cold, with religious overtones. Does that sound attractive to stud recruits in warm weather climates?
Normally, I could argue against any negative recruiting comments towards Notre Dame (even Cowherd’s that I brought up), but am beginning to wonder if I am too emotionally attached to see reality.
TKlibe
I have to agree with southbendblarney. Notre Dame just doesn’t have the same aura they used to. And without a coach that apparently has a gift for recruiting, who’s to continue to bring in the talent? A loss to 2-8 Syracuse? Inexcusable. Settling for a coach that goes 12-0, and runs the program into the ground? Just as bad.
Luckeye Hater
Michigan fan here,
As a fan of one of your rivals, I also hope for CW to get canned. He is not living up to the standard that ND should (and does) have. He may be smart (though perhaps that is overrated), and he seems to be a good recruiter. However, he is clearly not cut out for the job of head coach.
I once saw a fascinating quote from Washington Redskins’ coach Joe Gibbs. Someone asked him why he thought he could still coach, even when so much had changed while he had been away from the game. He replied, “Well, human nature hasn’t changed, has it?”
To me, that is the element of coaching that CW is missing. So much of football, particularly at the lower levels, is about motivation. How do you get a group of kids to band together and throw their bodies around so violently? It clearly takes more than “tactical smarts” or just putting good players on the field.
So good luck in your coaching search, if you have one. Over here at Michigan we certainly (now) understand how hard it is to change coaches, the dreaded “transition” and all that. But bringing in someone new for ND may actually be perfect timing. A lot of good players are in place. If you find the right head guy, you may be headed for the MNC sooner than you think.
Sincerely,
Luckeye Hater
The Biscuit
Mark, Butch Davis went to the pros, and a ton of cash. That is not the same thing.
And to everyone who claims Weis isn’t ‘developing talent’ – talent does not develop in 12 games or 2 seasons. Especially when it’s fed to the fire in year 1. I am fine with the criticism, but people need some perspective here. We were one of the youngest teams in D1 last year, and we’re not much better this year. Its not an excuse, its reality. Frosh and sophomores don’t play like JRs and SRs til they are.