Over at Dr. Saturday, Holly, aka, "The Girl Who Blogs About College Football (OGMAGIRL!)," points out that Florida has begun work on damage control against the 24 arrests of Gator football players during Urban Meyer's tenure.
Here's the spin or "positive light" (my comments in italics)...
- Only three arrests from the last three recruiting classes (including 2009) - Ok...
- At least 14 of the charges were dropped in the 24 cases - Ah, to have a cooperative prosecutor's office...
- 14 of the 24 player arrests have been from players he did not
recruit or were in his first recruiting class - So the claim is he was learning how to judge character in the first year of his 3rd HC gig? - The 24 arrests represents 19 different players - So best case scenario, there are 5 repeat offenders on the team, and the worst case (?) is there's a guy on the team with 5 separate arrests?
- Six of the arrests are among players Meyer did not recruit
- Eight of the arrests are among players in Meyer's first class
- Seven of the arrests are among players in Meyer's second class
- Two of the arrests are among players in Meyer's third class
- One of the arrests are among players in Meyer's fourth class - Hey, don't worry guys, I'm sure if you just give them enough time in the program...
- None of the arrests are among players in Meyer's fifth class - Jeebus, this is supposed to be a small victory for them? How many of these guys are even on campus?
Urban Meyer also released a statement (cough - hoping to preserve a chance at one day coaching at ND - cough). The statement is such an easy target that we trust the kids at Bleacher Report can handle it, so we'll just go ahead and paste it here for your enjoyment and then add a picture we did quite a while back to the bottom because this joint is lacking in visual embellishment lately.
"This group of players we have now are by and large a pretty good group. They are 18-to-22 years old and, like most young people, they are trying to find their way.
"It is a continual part of our program to mentor and guide our players and it is not an exact process. Although we have been very successful with most, we are by no means perfect. We are disappointed when we encounter some issues along the way, but we are going to continue to educate and teach our players."
By irish64 June 11, 2009 - 6:24 am
For two National Championships in three years, I wouldn’t care if the coach was Charles Manson. Nothing says forgiveness like winning. (And not losing to Syracuse and Navy)
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By domer.mq June 11, 2009 - 8:04 am
That’s a pretty weird perspective to have about Notre Dame Football, irish64.
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By irish64 June 11, 2009 - 9:10 am
Simply put, the object of the game is to win.
You win not only with good players, but with good coaching.
Would anyone argue, given the past four years, that CW is a better coach than Urban Meyer?
If a kid gets arrested, it’s HIS fault, not the school’s, not the coach’s. The two issues are not related.
My only point is that UM is simply a better college coach than CW. UM has never lost to Syracuse or Navy; teams that feel blessed when they get a 3-star recruit.
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By domer.mq June 11, 2009 - 9:48 am
Simply put, irish64, I think you’ve lost track of the spirit of ND in your hunger for wins. It’s not “win at all costs” it’s “win no matter the odds.” Run along, now.
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By tednict June 11, 2009 - 10:20 am
Irish64, you cannot be a ND Alum with an attitude like that. I believe you need to wash your mouth with soap.
The attitude you have about winning will never be the benchmark for Notre Dame Football.
You need to find another team for whom you can cheer…perhaps the state prison where you live can have a football program…as long as they win.
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By The Biscuit June 11, 2009 - 10:45 am
64, that feels more like it’s coming from an Ohio State, U$C or a (gasp) Florida fan. No one said that Weis is a better coach than Meyer. But Meyer does nothing for these men beyond help them win for a year or two. Yes, I would love to win more. But NEVER at the expense of what ND stands for. If you really feel the way you do in these comments, I recommend you find another team. Miami needs some fans – Thug U sounds right up your alley.
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By tjak June 11, 2009 - 11:01 am
I am a high school history and leadership teacher in Canada and my students are far removed from Notre Dame Football. Some students, before they enter my class have never even heard of the university. But no student that I have ever taught can say that they do not know all about Irish lore after attending my classes. I tell you this, because of what Notre Dame means to me and what the school of our lady stands for. Just the other day I was talking to a senior leadership class about motivation and mentioned the story about Coach Holtz and the team benching Ricky Watters and Tony Brooks (USC game 1988) for perpetually being late for team meetings. The Irish beat the Trojans handily and learned how to win the right way. I have to say that I disagree with you Irish64; winning is wonderful, but college football should also be about preparing young men for a world after football and building character. That is what Notre Dame stands for.
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By brendan June 11, 2009 - 1:13 pm
“If a kid gets arrested, it’s HIS fault, not the school’s, not the coach’s. The two issues are not related.”
That is shockingly simplistic.
And the whole thing about Charles Manson and winning buying forgiveness: that’s just bizarre.
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By irish64 June 11, 2009 - 3:55 pm
Well, boys, I think I’m entitled to my opinion as a third generation ND grad. Having attended during the reign of another lousy coach, Joe Kuharich, I see some parallels that make me sick.
Let’s not be high and mighty. We have a football program that generates MILLIONS of dollars for the University. The object of that program is to win games. If you really want a program that doesn’t have a benchmark for winning, then I suggest we drop to Division III. If you want us to stay in IA, then we have to play like the big boys in IA.
My point is that CW has not delivered the goods. For all his supposed credentials, losing to such as Syracuse and Navy and squeaking (luckily) out against a San Diego State, CLEARLY shows he’s not the answer. This guy is WORSE than Kuharich ever was.
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By domer.mq June 11, 2009 - 4:04 pm
irish64, being a 3rd generation grad, I’d have expected you to “get” ND, but it’s clearly been lost on you. I’d also expect you be capable of better reading comprehension. We don’t want ND to be righteous at the cost of winning. We want ND to be righteous and to win while doing so.
I’d keep discussing this with you, but I see you’re failing to live up to another expectation I’d have for an individual with such a great ND lineage: the capability to grasp logic and reason. So again, I say, run along.
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By irish64 June 11, 2009 - 4:14 pm
Well, domer, you’re entitled to your opinion. Surely, you will allow that I’m entitled to mine. My initial premise was that UM was/is a better coach than CW. Can ANYBODY refute that in view of their respective records over the past four years? Really?
Like you I’m a domer, actually a double domer. That doesn’t mean I drink green Kool-Aid all the time.
Do you really think CW will ever win a National Championship? Seriously? Or does that matter to you?
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By domer.mq June 11, 2009 - 4:23 pm
My God, irish64, I’m banning you for your inability to follow a conversation.
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By The Biscuit June 11, 2009 - 4:49 pm
64, i’m going to give this one last try. there are 2 issues that you’re intermingling.
1) Urban Meyer is a better coach than charlie weis
2) Urban Meyer is a dirtbag that recruits thugs and let’s them run wild and doesnt care so long as he gets wins.
We’ve ONLY been talking about #2. You keep bringing up #1, but at no point did we even mention this. The two are not mutually exclusive anyway – Meyer could be undefeated forever and be the biggest scumbag on earth. Or he could be a good man and a good coach (see: Holtz, Lou). What Domer is getting frustrated with is your complete inability to separate the two, and your blanket statement that winning at all costs is what ND is/should be about. It’s not, and it will never be. We will not be UF, we will not be U$C, we will not be Michigan (sucks!). We will win the right way.
I am not here to debate a Win and Loss comparison between Weis and Meyer in CFB. A monkey can see that Meyer wins that matchup hands-down. What we’re talking about it doing it the RIGHT way, and winning. Weis does it the RIGHT way, and he won for 2 seasons, and then things fell apart. But Meyer doesn’t, hasn’t, and won’t do it the right way. You cannot refute it. You cannot debate it, it’s fact. UF under Meyer: 24 arrests. That’s freaking 12 per MNC!
We care about winning, but that isn’t the point here.
If you don’t get this, then I’m going to have to go ahead and call you on the 3rd generation Domer thing. Not saying that you aren’t, but instead saying you must’ve just gotten in because of the legacy status. Because, dude.
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By Bad Kermit June 11, 2009 - 5:49 pm
Whoa, whoa. Isn’t that a bit quick with the banhammer? I don’t think 64 is guilty of not following the conversation. In fact, one might argue that no one is following HIS initial point, which was that he thinks UM is a better coach than Weis, whether UM is a dickhead or not. And, let’s be honest. Does anyone still think Weis isn’t an arrogant prick? The difference between him and Meyer may be that Weis is an HONEST arrogant prick, but he’s still a prick. Maybe I’m misreading 64′s comments, but I see it as, “As long as the program retains its integrity and honesty, who CARES if the coach is an asshole?” I couldn’t agree more. In my opinion, the last three guys have all been assholes. Can they at least hire an asshole who is going to win?
Please don’t ban me.
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By domer.mq June 11, 2009 - 7:53 pm
It’s not that we didn’t follow 64′s basic point, BK. We get it. He thinks Meyer is a better football coach than Weis. That’s fine. I’m ambivalent about that opinion. But we’re not taking that opinion in a vacuum. That opinion was adorned with the wrappings of the point that morals don’t matter with the HC of ND so long as he’s a winner, and with that I take issue, no matter the past sins of former HCs at ND. I’ll very much care about the moral operations of ND’s next NC winning HC. And being a jerk is one thing, being an amoral jerk is quite another (You know that I should know.). And while Weis may be a “sinner” in the old testament sense, and he may come off as a jerk, I’ve seen little evidence of him taking morality lightly, and I’ve seen very little evidence of him taking transgressions of his players lightly. Certainly not to the level that Meyer has taken them. And that’s something I don’t think fits at ND. And I’m also not convinced that Meyer could operate under the stricter constraints of ND and manage the success he’s had at Florida. I think it takes a very special coach to win NCs at ND, and I don’t think Meyer is it, whether he’s a better college football coach than Weis or not.
And if 64′s real opinion is “who cares if he’s just a jerk,” then he failed to articulate that in any of his 4 comments under this post. We want to encourage discussion here, but at what point is discussion just too stupid to encourage?
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By Bad Kermit June 11, 2009 - 10:03 pm
Disagreeable and inarticulate as his points may have been, I’m just saying that I think they’re at least arguable points and, to an extent, I agree with him. It’s not like he said something ridiculous like he thinks Weis is a baby-eater (though, honestly, is there anything Weis WON’T eat?). You know infinitely more about football than I do, so maybe I’m dead wrong and his point WAS “stupid.” On the other hand, maybe it was just expressed poorly. I don’t know. People only make dick jokes on my site, so I’ve never really had to deal with this.
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By Bad Kermit June 11, 2009 - 10:04 pm
P.S. You know I love you, Q.
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By DeepTeaKup June 11, 2009 - 11:57 pm
BK,
I’m just glad we’re back to making fat jokes about Weis. You know what Weis won’t eat, salad. HA. That’s gold right there.
Gotta agree on Weis being a wee tad arrogant as well, all CFB coaches are to an extent but Weis takes (and eats) the cake.
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By tjak June 12, 2009 - 1:52 pm
Welcome to the conversation deepteacup; too bad you couldn’t think of something more intelligent to say, given how much of a scammer dickrod is.
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By The Biscuit June 12, 2009 - 2:26 pm
tjak, i know we unabashedly bash skunkbear fans here, but DTK is a friend. i am 100% cool with you attacking DickRod or messing with DTK on that/his team sucking/etc, (and really you can do what you want) but i’d prefer you mock his team and not him personally (he seems a pretty smart dude, if not wildly misguided no?).
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By DeepTeaKup June 12, 2009 - 6:52 pm
Appreciate it Biscuit, I guess I should have learned from last time that the only person on this site besides me who likes CW fat jokes is BK. But come on guys, those were funny. Right?
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By VicPaul June 13, 2009 - 4:59 pm
I didn’t find them particularly funny. Half of you Americans or obese but I’m not going to rip into you about it, that would be taking the easy way out and I am way to funny to waste my talents on Fat Jokes.
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By VicPaul June 13, 2009 - 5:00 pm
I ment ‘are obese’.
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By tjak June 13, 2009 - 5:27 pm
Actually, I was referring more to the comment dtcup made then I was his intelligence. I guess we are all getting a little sensitive on this site. You are a pretty cool friend, biscuit, to defend the honour of a skunkbear.
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By Vicpaul June 13, 2009 - 5:30 pm
I meant “meant”. God I hate being drunk, when I blog on this site.
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By Domerva June 15, 2009 - 1:27 pm
You guys really are tools. Five years ago when TW was canned, all of you wanted UM. He spurned ND and now he is a dick head, liar, scum bag et al. Lou Holtz was no saint, and nobody outside of ND liked Leahy in his heyday. Do yourselves a favor and get over your hatred Meyer or seek therapy. You will feel much better.
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By Bad Kermit June 15, 2009 - 3:11 pm
I honestly don’t hate Urban, Domerva, but how exactly could he have “spurned” ND if he was never actually offered the job? I hate when people jump to conclusions based on what the media wants them to believe.
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By The Biscuit June 16, 2009 - 11:43 am
And even if he did spurn ND (BK is right, he didnt/couldnt, but lets pretend he did), it’s completely irrelevant. At the time, he hadnt yet become the dirtbag he is. How many AK-47 wielding guys did he have on his past squads? How many drug dealers, credit card thieves, etc? Guys that he let slide time and time again despite these transgressions so he could win? Not many, or none. At the time, he didnt come across as a dirtbag at the least, and may not have been one at best. Today, he’s shown that he has no integrity. I personally don’t hate Urban Meyer. I just think he has no scruples, he does nothing for his kids beyond use them for W’s, and I dont want him at ND. And thanks for your concern over how I feel Domerva, but honestly, I feel awesome pretty much all the time. So I’m good.
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