Contrary to what many of you may think, I'm not at all thrilled about Charlie sticking around. I'm not extremely pissed either. I'm very much neutral. Not happy, not depressed. Just accepting.
Yes, I think it was the right decision. No, I do not think that he's been a great coach. I will expand more on this later.
Given the amount of negativity I've seen in the message boards and blogs, I thought I'd link to a (gasp! Fox Sports!) article that takes the opposite side. Just to provide a bit of balance here folks.
I mean, seriously, some of the moronic things I've read from 'fans' just blow my mind. Internet-obsessives that rant and rave kill me. They consider themselves the 'voice of the fan'. Just a quick note to all those Message Board Posters who think this: your one little board clique MIGHT make up 1,000-2,000 people collectively. And you don't even have a consensus POV. Out of hundreds of thousands IF NOT MILLIONS of Irish fans? You're not even close to being 'the voice'. Frankly, you're nowhere near being representative simply because you have time to spend most of your day on a message board. And that's collectively - as individuals, no, you CANNOT by definition represent all those millions of diverse people. You. Just. Don't. So quit thinking you do.
I especially like this part, and this is along the lines of one portion of what I think about the whole thing:
In other words, if a new coach came in, he'd have a shot at succeeding right away. Just like Weis did when he took over.
Weis has built the program to this point, and while the performance against USC might have been a nightmare, the season is a few plays away from not being all that bad. Had the Irish gotten one late break in the four-overtime loss to Pitt, and had the D been able to hold on in the inexplicable collapse to Syracuse, the Irish would be 8-4 and there'd be no talk about the coaching situation. Veteran teams win the close games like the 29-21 loss at North Carolina, and next year, Notre Dame will be a veteran team.
Emphasis mine. Now, I don't think that ND should 'accept' being 'this close' to beating Pitt, Syra-freaking-cuse and UNC. But that's where this program is after the debacle of 3-9 2007, whether we like it or not. Part of that's due to Weis (both good and bad), part of that's due to the players (again good and bad - they're good enough to be close, they're bad enough to lose), part of that's due to random luck. But it's also a fact that if we'd gotten a few bounces here and there, we'd have been 8-4 and this discussion wouldn't even be happening. (yes yes, i know that we got a lucky bounce against SDSU with the fumble and could've been 5-7 as well, but that doesnt negate the point).
Anyway, just providing a little from the other side. I don't come close to agreeing 100% with this article, but it's one of the few that doesn't take the "OMG HE'S THE WORST EVER HOW WILL WE EVER SURVIVE????!??!?!?!??!?!" tact. So there you go.
By Publius December 3, 2008 - 3:23 pm
We may be a few plays away from 8-4, but keep in mind that we’re also a few plays away from 4-8. Furthermore, losing two onside kicks in a row to Navy is not luck. Neither is losing three games where we held a double digit lead at the half. Malicious luck is more of a freak occurrence, i.e. the Bush Push or the phantom holding call against Colorado in 1990. What we have seen this season not a run of bad luck, but serial coaching malpractice.
Yes, we do have a young team, but that not the be all and end all explanation that the Weistown kool-aid drinkers make it out to be. Youthful mistakes in what is otherwise a competent scheme can be seen in the defense. They have improved throughout the season (hell, they held SC to seven points during the first quarter, which was practically 15 minutes of playing without respite) and are generally competent. True, there are mistakes, but Tenuta and Brown are usually minimize such errors through proper coaching and play calling. The offense, however, has displayed no improvement over the course of the season. There are youthful mistakes there as well, but Weis and Haywood have shown themselves completely unable to recognize this and adjust accordingly. The play calling is either unoriginal or off-the-wall bad, and blocking is almost non-existent, and there seems to be no developmental progress outside the wide receivers.
It has been bad enough over the past three years (the 2006 team always gave me the impression that was jerry-rigged and blessed with luck) that I have no faith the 2009 season. The veritable laundry list of questionable or downright bad decisions or results that have accumulated during Weis’ tenure should bring one to recognize that he, as well as many of his assistants, have not shown an coaching aptitude, and have not proven themselves adaptable enough to justify retaining.
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By domer.mq December 3, 2008 - 3:29 pm
I think the fact that you find yourself agreeing with Pete Fiutak should cause alarm bells to go off in your head.
Search his name on HLS and remember why.
At any rate, as pointed out above, we’re one play away from losing to SDSU. We’re one play away from losing to Navy. We’re probably 1 play away from losing to Stanford, but I can’t recall exactly which play that was. So we’re about 3 plays away from being 3-9 again.
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By The Biscuit December 3, 2008 - 3:42 pm
again, i acknowledged that the luck could swing either way. with worse luck we’d have more losses, with better luck we’d have fewer. it doesn’t negate the fact that we’re a few lucky plays away from 8-4 and this convo doesn’t happen. top teams are lucky too – and if they had better luck they may have 0 losses rather than one, and worse luck would mean 2 losses rather than one. yes, it works both ways, but the point is we were very close to 8-4 (being very close to 3-9 doesnt negate the closeness to 8-4 – i may need a graph here).
as for Fiutak, that’s why i included the (gasp!) and the disclosure that i am nowhere near agreeing with 100% of what he said. i was just providing a perspective that i haven’t seen anywhere else, and parts of which i agree with.
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By domer.mq December 3, 2008 - 3:47 pm
But the luck on either side of the ball has occurred. It’s a metaphysical fallacy to state that there was more luck in the universe that could have gone either way. The luck that would occur did occur, and we’re left at 6-6. The only way to do better or worse is to have been a better team or a worse team. Frankly, worse was not an option. Sadly, it appears better wasn’t an option either.
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By The Biscuit December 3, 2008 - 5:06 pm
no no, i’m not saying that our luck was disproportionately worse. i’m saying that we were a few plays from being 8-4. period. and the fact that we were a few plays from being 4-8 does not negate that.
plus, i think a more experienced team is more likely to make those plays, hence the two go together. my point is we’re pretty close to being pretty good. not great, pretty good. great comes in 2010. that’s a long two years away, but hey at least by then we might be climbing out of this recession.
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By Bad Kermit December 3, 2008 - 5:49 pm
I know it’s not you who wrote it, Biscuit, but GOD DAMN THAT “If _____ happened, he’d be _____” argument. Every hack sports writer writes some crap like that at some point. “If you took all of Weis’ losses away, he’d be undefeated as the coach of ND!” Brilliant!
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By domer.mq December 3, 2008 - 5:57 pm
The problem, biscuit, is we should be talking about how ND was a few plays away from being undefeated this season with this schedule. Not whether or not ND is “great,” just whether or not ND had 10 wins or 12 wins this season against this schedule.
I can’t wait to see what a few plays will bring against Nevada.
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By Bill December 3, 2008 - 6:01 pm
The fault, dear Biscuit, is not in our star, it’s in our coaching staff
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By Bill December 3, 2008 - 6:01 pm
*stars
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By The Biscuit December 3, 2008 - 6:51 pm
MQ if you really expected 10-12 wins this year, then i don’t think you were paying attention last year. I thought you were with me in the 7-5 department. Again, teams don’t OFTEN go from SUCK to REALLY GOOD in a year. Now, we went from SUCK to KINDA SUCK this year, and I was hoping for SUCK to DECENT. But I didnt know that you expected 10-12 wins. Sorta surprised given the structural issues we faced. Agree that the schedule wasn’t that tough, but it wasn’t as easy as everyone thought either. (except syracuse – that game should’ve been that easy). BK, i know what you’re saying. “if what happened hadn’t happened, it would’ve been different!” yes, drives me crazy too. but it’s not like we weren’t ‘in’ most of the losses. we actually led in most of our losses, which to me means there’s potential there. we didnt lose all 6 in blowouts. we lost 2 by a decent margin, and the others were pretty close if not down to the wire.
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By DeepTeaKup December 3, 2008 - 7:01 pm
Biscuit,
At some point, you are what your record says you are (Parcells quote). Close wins and close losses tend to even themselves out over time. At 3-9 UM is a bad team, is there hope for the future, IMO yes. At 6-6 ND is at best an average team, now the real question is after 4 years of Weis should ND be above average? IMO, I think ND fans have reason to be left wanting. I can tell you if RichRod is .500 after year 4, he should (and probably will be) gone.
Sorry, but by ND standards especially, this was an easy schedule. I don’t see how you can honestly say otherwise
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm
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By domer.mq December 3, 2008 - 7:06 pm
Jesus H. Christ, Biscuit, it’s not about what I expected in August. It’s about what I’ve seen since then and what I know could have been had this team been properly prepared. ND beat ONE TEAM with a winning record, and that team was Navy. They lost to a team with 2 wins. They didn’t get a 1st down against Southern Cal until the last play of the 3rd quarter. WSU was more competitive against Southern Cal!
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By The Biscuit December 3, 2008 - 7:14 pm
Then I’m not sure why you said the discussion should be about 10-12 wins vs 6 or 7. The last month completely sucked – I’m not saying it didn’t. We were horrid against Syracuse and horrid against SC. We were not horrid against Pitt or UNC or MSU. We were OK, and not too far from pulling out wins. After 3-9, I was liking where we were. (again, last month = suckitude) I’m saying that my expectations for this year were pretty tempered, as I still saw a ton of structural issues that hadn’t been fixed in the off-season. Others that had higher expectations are freaking out. It appears you had higher expectations as well. I’m certainly not happy, but I think that’s why I’m not as fire-and-brimstone as everyone else. I also don’t know how you ‘know’ what this team could have been with ‘proper’ preparation. How is it that you know this, and what is it that they could have been? I think this team could’ve been 7-5 with an 8-4 lean maybe, at best.
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By The Biscuit December 3, 2008 - 7:20 pm
DTK, I do ‘expect more’. Again, me being okay with the non-firing doesn’t mean i’m happy or that i love weis and think he’s a great coach. i just think that given the alternative (another crappy hire of a mid-level coach along with a mass defection of recruits and paying a bajillion dollar buyout), keeping him was right on. i’ll write a post on it, then we can argue over that, point by point.
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By The Biscuit December 3, 2008 - 7:22 pm
And DTK, I’m not sure I get your point on the schedule. To me, the 36th ranked SOS is pretty tough for a young team. No, it’s not the toughest ever or anything like that, but it’s also not in the 70′s.
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By san diego irish December 3, 2008 - 8:00 pm
Good post Biscuit.
The reason that the offensive performance didn’t improve over the course of the season like the defense did was because you can’t improve with shitty offensive line play. Half way through the season teams starting playing exclusively cover 2, with multiple DBs and just begging ND to run the ball and they couldn’t. If your offensive line can’t run block, and isn’t great at pass blocking, you have problems that no amount of offensive genius-ness could overcome. I don’t think you can hang that on Weis (Plenty of other things are his fault). He can’t be expected to teach the O lineman how to block.
At the risk of sounding overly optimistic, I do believe that better offensive line play and a few less mistakes by Jimmy could yield vast improvements next year.
As far as the defense goes, Weis should get at least some of the credit for the D’s performance given that he recruited most of the defensive players and was smart enough to recruit Brown and Tenuta and turn the defense over to them. The D will be even better next year as some of these kids start to mature. If ND gets Teo or Jenkins, the D might be very good next year.
Good arguments have been made that Weis should be canned, but there are arguments for him staying also. I do think there is still reason to believe he might get it done even if the odds are against him.
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By DeepTeaKup December 3, 2008 - 8:48 pm
Biscuit,
My bad, miread the chart. 36th is not bad, guess I’m just used to ND being top 10 for SOS.
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By The Biscuit December 3, 2008 - 8:53 pm
yeah DTK, seems like everyone thinks that our schedule is ‘weak’ when it’just weak-ER than past years. just bc ND no longer plays all ranked teams doesnt mean it’s a weak schedule. we’re right around the top 1/3rd, which is perfect if you ask me. top 25 is a bit tough (especially with a young team) and anything below 40 is getting too week. I like being right in the 30′s. Respectable but not insane. look at ‘Bama – freaking #78! nobody calls that weak though – nope!
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By Bad Kermit December 3, 2008 - 9:17 pm
I’m saying that my expectations for this year were pretty tempered, as I still saw a ton of structural issues that hadn’t been fixed in the off-season. Others that had higher expectations are freaking out. It appears you had higher expectations as well. I’m certainly not happy, but I think that’s why I’m not as fire-and-brimstone as everyone else.
I’m on record as having predicted 6 or 7 wins for this team, and I’m pissed. I think laid-back California living has gotten into your blood. This non-aggression will not stand!
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By DeepTeaKup December 3, 2008 - 9:23 pm
Biscuit,
Great point on Bama. SEC West was bad this year, UT was down, and that win over Clemson stopped looking impressive after week 2. I think they are still a great team but I would not be suprised to see UF win big on Sat.
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By The Biscuit December 4, 2008 - 12:04 pm
BK, maybe you’re right. But I’m pretty sure the last month has shaved 3 years from DomerMQ’s life, and about a month off mine…so not a bad change for me all-around I’d say.
Sadly DTK I think you’re right – UF will be back in the NC vs. OK. Lord I hope OK wins.
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By Her Loyal Sons » BREAKING: Biscuit Okay, Not Thrilled with Weis’ Return December 4, 2008 - 4:05 pm
[...] the globe, and after Weis’ return to the team was officially announced, Biscuit further clarified his stance. Contrary to what many of you may think, I’m not at all thrilled about Charlie sticking around. [...]
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