We here at HLS do not fancy ourselves the best at much - we're not the best writers, we're not the best bloggers, we're not the best looking (well, MQ isn't), etc. But, we're pretty good at logic. In fact, I think we're the best out there at that. Too bad those freaking CFB Awards don't have a category for that. And if they did, they'd give it to EDSBS anyway because they're FUNNY! Yep, logic.
Anyway, today Tom Pagna, who I have no personal beef with (and I generally like BGI), wrote an article. He feels bad about being a critic. Tom, I have problems with illogical articles that randomly jump all over the place, and articles with specious hypotheses and little proof to back them up. So! I feel bad about being a critic of your critique, but here it comes anyway.
Here it is. And here are a few choice quotes and responses.
Maybe we’ve all been misled by all the typical recruiting hype into thinking all of our 4- and 5-star athletes are superior players.
This right here is one of the most illogical things I've seen, and not just from Tom in this article. Where are "all these 4 and 5 star athletes"? They're in the freshmen and sophomore class, Tom! It's not like we're 4 and 5-star from Frosh to 5th year. Take a look at the roster buddy. Everyone likes to pretend that just bc Weis had two back to back solid to great classes (and is building on a third) that ND is just FLUSH with all this talent and CW can't get anything out of them. HALF this team is top shelf talent. The rest is okay and in some places we flat out just don't have players. We don't have numbers. That is BAD. That's Ty's last class (5th Years), CW's first (seniors that he half-recruited while at New England), and his second class (decimated due to injury, transfers and missed buses). So, yes Tom, we have 2 good classes that are very young. But this generalization is simply not true.
You cannot do in three games what it has taken years to undo.
I completely agree with this sentiment. I won't argue it. But, Tom, it completely undermines the rest of your argument. If it takes time to turn these things around, WHY ARE YOU IN SUCH A FREAKING HURRY?
Certainly there is the rudimentary knowledge to come to all practices with full equipment, each practice should contain basic drills and occasional contact, the running game demands as much practice time as the air game, and utilize the collective wisdom of the staff.
Can you please explain to me how this staff does not do each of these things? From every practice report I've ever read, all of these are covered weekly. Next?
I also believe in treating players in meetings and practices with the same respect you would have in addressing Father Hesburgh. The “bad cop” role does not always play well after tough losses or when a team is trying to find itself. Foul language is not motivational nor does it display intelligence. Most often it is a way to lose a squad’s respect. This is true of the head coach and every assistant. If you allow it, you condone it! To condone it is to reap the poor result.
There are two separate sentiments here, and I'll address each. 1) Treating college football players the way you treat a legendary Priest is simply moronic. Father Hesburgh isn't 18, he isn't a college football player, he doesn't have to go to class, his family's hopes and dreams (no longer) rest on his shoulders. He's not young and sometimes stupid. You treat players VERY differently than you treat Father Hesburgh. Of course all people deserve 'respect'. But that respect can and should be delivered extremely differently to a football team. Now, as far as the bad cop role not 'always working...' - of course not. Nothing "ever" works "always" "all the time". That kind of generalization is impossible. And Charlie doesn't 'always' play the bad cop. He did last week and he should've this week because the boys stunk it up. This is football. Coaches yell, players need it (just ask MQ). Coddling is for polo players. This is D-1 college level smash mouth football. If they can't take a HC yelling at them or playing "bad cop" how can they handle a 350 pound beast-man of a D-lineman chasing them down to destroy them? Right, they can't. So if they can't handle Charlie yelling a bit, this is the wrong game for them. 2) Swearing/cursing/whatever. Get over it. Yes, coaches swear. Who are you to say 'it's not motivational'? Do you represent every player that's ever played? Swearing may not be motivational to YOU, but that doesn't mean it's not motivational to someone else, and it certainly doesn't mean that it doesn't work on ND's players (or any other player for that matter). Tenuta has the mouth of a drunken sailor after a 4-day furlough, and his defenses have consistently been great. Looks to me like it worked for some kids, at the least. And you think this caused his players to not respect their coaches? "Most often"? C'mon man, how do you know this? Did you do a survey of a representative sample (say, 4,000+) college football players to determine this? Just because YOU have lost respect for coaches that swear doesn't mean anyone else has. These are crazy generalizations here. Crazy! "All men that have respect for themselves do not swear!" said the man that never once uttered a swear word while falling down in the gutter drunk as a skunk along with his hooker girlfriend. "So I must respect the Heaven of myself!"
Every head coach I have ever known oversaw his own practice plan, was involved with all the playcalling, and in fact, was responsible for every action of his team.
Dude, how many have you known? Any at the D-1 college level? Any at ND? Cuz this is a WEIRD statement. Coaches DO NOT oversee every practice plan in detail. They set the strategy and assistant coaches execute. They are NOT involved in all the playcalling. How could they do this? You think Bob Davie called plays when he was at ND? He was a freaking D-Coordinator before he had that job. Why WOULD he? The ultimate responsibilty does fall on the HC, for EVERY action. But that doesn't mean the HC is involved in every single decision down to minute details. CW already works 20 hour days. To do what you want it'd have to be 40 hour days...let's do the math: 24 - 40 = X.
If it is true that a team takes on the head man’s personality and becomes an extension of him, the role of “head coach” needs to be one of impeccable action and behavior. It doesn’t have to be perfection, but done with integrity and high character.
I would agree with this, but then I'd ask you what's the point of this statement? Where in the above do you "prove" that Charlie acts without integrity and character? Because he 'plays bad cop'? That means he has no integrity? Because he curses when he's angry? That means no character? What are you TALKING about? The dude who started Hannah & Friends and who executed Pass Right and who has kept the team's GPA above 3.0 and graduated players and run a tight ship with minimal problems? That guy? No character? Give me a break Tom, this is just randomness.
In the end, what's the point of the article? I don't really know. I am okay with questioning strategic decisions in games. I'm okay with questions on motivation or playcalling. But almost everything above is either irrelevant, personal bias or just plain weird. That I am not okay with.
I'm not gonna 'walk around proud' like you having written this, but at the least I'll know that one or two more readers out there will know that we are here when BS is written to call it what it is. What's that you say?
B.S.
Just because you don't like the results (me neither) doesn't mean you can just spout off random stuff. Come at it right and argue his inability to do things that matter, and I'll be with you. This? Nah. I'm a critic.
By MIke Sheehan November 13, 2008 - 9:34 pm
Dude, how many have you known? Any at the D-1 college level? Any at ND?
If I’m not mistaken – Tom Pagna was an assistant coach at ND under Ara Parsegian.
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By domer.mq November 13, 2008 - 11:57 pm
Mike,
We’re well aware of Pagna’s credentials. They’re thrown around constantly to remind us that we shouldn’t question him. “He worked for Ara!” It’s as though he worked for God, and thus he’s the Pope, and thus he can’t be questioned.
Pagna is a bitter man and a craptastic writer. Reading his writing is like reading 9th grad college prep English essays. He’s had it in for Weis since ND didn’t hire his boy Clements instead, and his credibility is shattered. Sometimes he actually makes a good point, but then he beats it into submission with petty remarks and poorly camouflaged jealousy.
Oh, and everybody stand back because lighting’s about to strike: The game’s probably passed Pagna by.
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By The Biscuit November 14, 2008 - 12:24 am
Sheehan,I know one. And not well. But that’s besides the point. Bc I’m not claiming to know what all college coaches think. Or most. Or even a large number of them. And there’s no way Pagna knows a representative number of college coaches. Especially today. Working for Ara back in the day, which is a great accomplishment, doesn’t mean he knows about ‘most’ coaches or ‘most’ players today. He knows about Ara and the kids he coached and maybe some coaches and players he interacts with regularly today. He certainly CAN’T know enough to claim what he claims in that article. It’s preposterous and random flailing about because he’s frustrated. It’s just bad writing and he should be called on it. I did.
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By The Biscuit November 14, 2008 - 12:25 am
Oh, and Sheehan – I’ve met Lou, and Charlie, and Ara, and I played for Bob Davie. That enough for you?
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By subway November 14, 2008 - 9:38 am
Boy’s, I’ll admit that Tom’s article doesn’t meet English 101 standards. With that being said, he’s forgotten more football then you’ll ever know! The basics never change. Alabama is not reinventing the wheel, just playing a brand of football I use to see in our stadium. I love Tom’s passion and respect his opinion. I’m sorry he doesn’t meet your elite standards. I realize that hard working, blue collar kids aren’t wanted in South Bend. Good luck with your Jersey jerk!
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By domer.mq November 14, 2008 - 9:49 am
Yeah, Subway, because neither Biscuit nor I meet the “hardworking” or “blue collar” standards from our youth. Good grief. We realize Pagna’s qualified to talk football. The problem is, Pagna’s disqualified from discussing this issue because he’s never, not once, had an unbiased thought about Weis.
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By The Biscuit November 14, 2008 - 11:57 am
subway, my issue isn’t with his ‘style’ of writing (as if my use of Freaking in every other word makes me an elitist in that way). it’s with his lack of logic. dude may ‘know more football than i’ll ever know’, but i never said i know more football than him. i called him out on massive generalizations that he’s made based on HIS life. that’s ONE GUY’S perspective, and he writes as if that’s the way it is for every coach and every player. that’s just not the case. especially when he has an agenda because he’s friends with a coach that got passed over for charlie, and especially when he extends those perspectives and ASSUMES they apply to ND and the HC there. you read my post and tell me where he has proof that these things are happening. or debate with me that charlie doesn’t have integrity, and i’ll listen. but blindly defending a guy bc he potentially ‘knows more’ isn’t going to get you anywhere with me on this topic. and i’d argue your ‘basics never change’ thing in this context as well. you’re saying that no coaches at Alabama ever swear or curse? and if they do they have no integrity? can you please clarify this for me? I’m confused – i must not ‘know’ enough here in my ‘elitist’ non-blue collar household (if haven’t met me, don’t make those kind of assertions. it’s just as bad as Pagna)
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By DeepTeaKup November 14, 2008 - 1:14 pm
Subway, that’s too funny. I don’t know Biscuit at all outside this virtual world where we have a hate/loathe relationship but I do know domer a bit. To call him elite is too funny, if you only knew how hard he has to work everyday to supress his inner redneck. He may post reviews of fancy beers and write in complete sentences, but inside there is a PBR drinking, spam eating, NASCAR fan just dying to burst out.
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By trey November 14, 2008 - 2:05 pm
I couldnt believe the comments about cursing either. Give me a freaking break. Tom seems to forget the Chaucer years where nary a voice was raised. That dumb@$$ would run up and down the sidelines whispering, “you did wrong, you upset me” when he should have been barking “WHAT THE FREAKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU ARNAZ!? GET YOUR #@$% HEAD IN THE GAME ALREADY!!” Sure worked out well there, didnt it, Pagna?
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By domer.mq November 14, 2008 - 3:48 pm
Let’s not forget the fluency in various animal fats and shotgun ammunition, DTK.
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By The Subway Domer November 14, 2008 - 4:54 pm
Biscuit-
Thanks for posting this. I hope I wasn’t mistaken as the previous “subway” on these comments.I almost always go the Ohio state route and use “THE” as a prefix. Pompous looks handsome on a 30 year old.
One thing I wanted to add on the current seniors and the so called”half-recruited by Weis ” class. If these people knew anything about recruiting, they would know that recruiting really begins in the junior year of HS not in February of their Senior year in HS. And furthermore, the current Junior class can in no way be called the first REAL class by Weis as he got to the party late with them as well.
So let me get this straight, the only recruiting classes that are truly Weis’s 100% are the freshman and sophomores. Who are the biggest playmakers on this team?
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By The Biscuit November 14, 2008 - 7:25 pm
Subway…right on…AND think about what this team would be like WITHOUT those 2 classes? Ugh!
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By Sheehan November 14, 2008 - 8:18 pm
WTF? JC boys … I’m on your side. Just trying to lend some perspective to the article. Biscuit .. if you didn’t know a Sheehan well it was probably their choice and not yours. Go Irish! Tiocfaidh ár lá
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By The Biscuit November 15, 2008 - 12:27 am
Sheehan my man, I hear you. And I get what you were saying. But too many people use his experience as an excuse for poor logic. Glad to have you with us. Go Arsh.
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By Her Loyal Sons » That Was A “Haka”-va Game, Eh? December 30, 2008 - 4:20 pm
[...] was when pretty much everyone lost their cool. Except Biscuit, of course. No. Wait. Biscuit was sick of Tom Pagna’s crap. I wrote something with which Biscuit took issue. There was a lot of rage. And then it got [...]
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