Really. I have no idea what made me think of this.
None. None at all.
Also racing through my mind: If and when this great American "empire" falls, it will be because most of us have no clue how to think critically.
I Don’t Know What Made Me Think Of This
Really. I have no idea what made me think of this.
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By Vin Franco November 13, 2008 - 9:24 am
I thought your angle was that the “witch” was C.Weis and the crazed peasants were Notre Dame internet posters calling for Charlie’s head. To me this short vignette shows the folly of wanting to fire CW before the season is over.
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By domer.mq November 13, 2008 - 12:00 pm
Yeah… that was pretty much the idea.
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By DeepTeaKup November 13, 2008 - 1:47 pm
Well, I think there is some room to criticize Weis. It may get over the top, especially anyone who calls for ND to replace Weis with Dantonio (which I would LOVE as a UM fan).
I think there is a sizable portion of the ND fan base that is just not satisfied. If you look at the turnaround jobs done by Saban, Meyer, Dantonio you have to wonder what is going on at ND at some point. It’s just the way things are, won’t get any better unless Weis can get them back to the BCS.
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By domer.mq November 13, 2008 - 2:01 pm
Sure, there’s room DTK. The problem is these people can’t seem to curb their emotions and just used facts to support an argument. There are plenty of facts out there. But people would rather just write, “Charlie Weis talks too much.” Who the hell cares?
I also don’t think it’s valid if you’re an ND fan, and likely argue over and over again that ND is “special” and a “special challenge” and then want to compare Saban, Meyer, etc… to Weis. Too many variables. For instance, Meyer certainly benefited from Zook’s bizarre ability to recruit. Saban can bring in JUCOs by the bus-load, apparently, and nobody cares. D’antonio is a very good coach, but I don’t think you could argue that MSU is “elite” yet. He’s just smart enough to keep giving the ball to Ringer and remain disciplined. They’ll forever be the Naval Academy of Michigan.
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By The Biscuit November 13, 2008 - 2:26 pm
The other issue that ND fans ignore is the weirdness of Weis’ tenure. Most turn-arounds start in year 1. Weis’ started in Year 2 in recruiting and Year 3 on the field, bc he was able to make Willie’s first 2 classes good on the field. So everyone goes “he’s in Year 4! blah blah blah”. But they don’t want to ‘count’ that last year happened, that the turnaround really just STARTED this year, bc last year was the bottom. CW used the first 2 years to buy him some time and to recruit. It worked on the recruiting front, but the time is running out among many (irrational) fans. Thankfully it hasn’t run out among the people that matter in the admin. I’m sure they’re getting impatient too, but they (and me) aren’t going to just forget about back-to-back BCS bowls (deserved or not, we were pretty good those 2 years) bc of a bad and mediocre season that everyone in the world saw coming (except, again, irrational ND fans). Sure, there’s room to criticize – dude is far from perfect – but there’s SHIT TON of room for context, which ND fans just looooove to ignore. If a terrible flu struck down every schollie ND player this January and Weis (or any ND coach) had to go out and start completely over w/o a single schollie player that Spring, ND fans would be okay with a tough season that coming Fall. But the next Fall? “Why do we accept mediocrity? What is this crap?” would happen all over again.
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By DeepTeaKup November 13, 2008 - 3:02 pm
I realize that there are some unique circumstances around ND and more specifically CW’s tenure. However, the perception is still out there that this is his 4th year, his 1st recruiting class are now Sr’s (ND still doesn’t redshirt much right?). The Ty excuse is preceived to be gone and it was CW’s team went out and crapped the bed against a bunch of guys at BC who did not even get an offer from ND. I suspect that ND nation is pretty sensitive to BC losses. Just saying that is the perception, fair or not.
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By domer.mq November 13, 2008 - 4:59 pm
Yes, but DTK, that’s why we’re here. We’re here to change perception to informed opinion. But you can only lead a horse to water.
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By The Biscuit November 13, 2008 - 8:14 pm
Too too too too true. Keep in mind DTK, that Weis’ “senior class” is a few guys cobbled together while he was off winning a Super Bowl. For good or bad, that’s the way it worked. There’s barely a 5th year (red shirt senior for all other schools – at ND you have to take grad school classes to stick around for a 5th, and that doesn’t include ballroom dancing Leinart) around, and very few seniors that are close to as talented as the under classmen. Even the Jr. class is pretty sparse after all the attrition (due to younger guys coming in and stealing away positions based on raw talent).
I’d take a bunch of 3-stars with 3 and 4 years experience over a bunch of 5 stars with 0 or 1 year experience any day. Not for the long run, but for any single game? No doubt. Decent talent plus experience beats out top talent with none, all the time.
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By Craig November 13, 2008 - 8:56 pm
The thing Weis has going for him is that he’s just coming off of Tybation, and even though some coaching mistakes have clearly been made, it’s hard to separate the mistakes from the necessary outcome of having a very short roster for several years.
I think that our fanbase is, by and large, a bit delusional. A lot of people see the college football landscape not as it is, but as they’d like it to be, and then they complain incessantly when reality doesn’t conform to their fantasy. I’m talking about ridiculous assertions that “we should never lose to a team like UNC” (ignoring the fact that a) Butch Davis is a good coach, b) UNC is actually a good team this year, I don’t care if they were a cellar dweller in 1988) and the like.
All of that said, it was very disconcerting how flat our offense was vs. BC. I know the Eagles have a good defense, but I really don’t think the offense showed up to play, and I think it’s reasonable to wonder about whether Weis is every going to be able to figure out how to get through to his team consistently.
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By Craig November 13, 2008 - 9:01 pm
Oh, and regarding the recruiting classes… I don’t think ND sets out to redshirt more or less than any other program. As a practical matter, our handling of redshirted players is different from most other teams, because they are still expected to maintain normal progress toward graduation (typically, graduating in four years) and they have to apply for a fifth year. Although I don’t know of anyone that Weis wanted back for a fifth year who was turned down, I suspect that some “depth” type guys who might stick around on a five-year-graduation program prefer to get on with their life when they graduate in four years here.
All of that is a long-winded way of saying that if we’re redshirting fewer players than most programs, it’s probably because a combination of lack of bodies and the relatively poor 2005 recruiting class have necessitated using guys earlier than Weis otherwise might have liked. We give Weis a pass for that 2005 class because Ty had basically stopped recruiting that season, which meant it would have taken a Herculean effort to rescue that class even if Weis hadn’t worked through the Super Bowl. As it was, he still managed to do a decent job of pulling in some good players like Duncan and Turkovich at the last minute.
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By DeepTeaKup November 14, 2008 - 1:08 pm
Just curious, does having to apply for a fifth year apply to all students or just those on ath. scholarships?
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By The Biscuit November 14, 2008 - 2:02 pm
it’s a scholarship thing. any ‘regular’ student would just apply for graduate school, like anyone else would. for athletes, they’re really applying for 1) eligibility (which isn’t an issue if they didnt play as frosh – our defn of a redshirt) and 2) admission into the school for grad school.
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