Why We Hate
domer.mq - 12:14 pm
You may have noticed, during this week, we’ve thrown out a lot of hate towards Ty Willingham’s way. Some people, particularly non-ND fans who stumble upon this site, may not really get why we vilify Willingham while we simply mock Davie and maybe poke a little fun at Faust. Here’s why.
Willingham would be a speck in most ND fans’ rear view mirrors had he not allowed the Saunders accusation of racism stand during his interview before our game in 2005. He didn’t have the gumption to confirm the accusation if he believed it, and he didn’t have the integrity to put an end to it if he didn’t believe it cost him his job at Notre Dame. We ND fans might make fun of him once in a while, and we surely would have lamented his poor recruiting; but most of us would treat him like a garden variety former coach had he shown a little class and integrity when he had the chance. 11-12 in his last 23 games isn’t why most of us hold a grudge. The grudge stems from the baseless accusation about the core of our collective character that he allowed to stand.
When you read, sometime soon, about how honorably Willingham handles his ouster from Washington, remember this, and remember he’s a fraud.
OC Domer
Well, we’re bitter because of the racism charge, and also because of THE GAPING HOLES HE LEFT IN THE ROSTER DUE TO HIS AWFUL RECRUITING THAT LED TO A 3-9 SEASON IN 2007!!! But maybe that’s just me.
October 24, 2008 at 12:48 pmtrey
DTK must read this and write a 2-paragraph report before he is allowed to comment on this site again.
October 24, 2008 at 12:49 pmdomer.mq
trey,
I can guarantee you DTK knows exactly why we hate. It’s just far more fun for him to bait people.
October 24, 2008 at 12:54 pmdomer.mq
OC, I blame Willingham for the gaping holes, but I don’t hate him for that. He was just inept. It would be like hating a blind dog who keeps running into walls. Then again, it would be a particularly lazy dog.
October 24, 2008 at 1:17 pmmark
I think Willingham is a poor coach and even worse recruiter. I fully support his being fired when he was. But what if it had been some hot shot white coach who had previous success, instead of Ty. If he had the same record and same recruiting, I still would like to have seen this mythical coach fired, but I do not think one can entirely dismiss the possibility that our administration/AD would have potentially given him the benefit of the doubt and another year (or two, holding to the 5 year thing). I don’t know. I would like to think they would have canned this mythical coach, but subconcious racism (for lack of a better description) exists to a larger degree than we would like to admit (I think the Presidential election will be much closer than the current polls show). My point is, while I think the arguments are strong that the Ty situation was more of a straw breaking the camel’s back (in that Lou fell off a little, then Davie struggled, then the straw), I don’t fault him for suggesting that maybe if he looked like all other head coaches he would have gotten a little more time. I still think he needed to be fired, but who knows, maybe I would have wanted to give someone like Charlie more time if he were in Ty’s place with the same record and recruiting. I would hope not, but I don’t know.
October 24, 2008 at 2:27 pmdomer.mq
mark,
October 24, 2008 at 2:57 pmThat’s absurd. You’re not even comparing apples to apples. “What if it had been some hot shot white coach who had previous success?” Where was Ty’s previous successs? How was he a hot shot? Neither of those labels apply to Ty. He was Monk Malloy’s dream coach. He could cause ND’s football program to fade into the background and become more like Stanford or Duke. As soon as Monk was no longer pulling the strings, ND cut Ty’s string. That’s how it worked. Your ignoring the facts completely if you think “subconscious racism” played a part in this.
Subway Domer
I completely agree with you domer.mq on your assesment of Mark’s comments. It is thinking like that (subconscious racism) that has fueled the scorn of the media and the hate that Irish fans have for Ty. Throw all of that in with the points that OC Domer made about the gaping holes in our roster and it intensifies the contempt from the fanbase even more.
When you can compare a coach to Davie and say Bob was the better of the two… my head is about to explode.
October 24, 2008 at 4:04 pmDeepTeaKup
domer’s right, I just like the cheap thrills of baiting, I am a master at it. I think Ty is a horrible coach who threw the race card from the bottom of the deck when he was canned.
October 24, 2008 at 4:59 pmmark
First off, my point is not defending Ty’s abilities or saying he should have been kept on as a coach for any longer than he was. He was a terrible recruiter, motivator, and coach and should not have been hired in the first place.
Second, you are right, bad analogy. Really, just picture some random older white coach who comes after Davie (not unlike George O’Leary) and coaches for 3 years to the same record and recruiting. I think Ty’s question/implication is whether a similar person who is white would have been given more time in a similar situation. Based on the paucity of people of color in leadership positions throughout the county, I think that is a fair question to at least consider. In my opinion, Ty’s firing probably had no racial undertones, and likely a similar white coach would have gotten the ax too. That said, racism is still such a big problem that I am OK with having a discussion about Ty’s situation and having to lay out why he sucked, especially given the 3 years he got versus 5 for others, and encouraging further analysis of issues of race. In short, unlike many of you, I don’t hate Ty because of the John Saunders interview. I do, however, strongly dislike his avoidance of recruiting OL.
Once again, for those of you skimming this comment really fast, Ty was/is a terrible coach, and should never get another coaching job.
Go Irish, beat the huskies.
October 24, 2008 at 9:26 pmSubway Domer
MARK saying this:
” I think Ty’s question/implication is whether a similar person who is white would have been given more time in a similar situation. Based on the paucity of people of color in leadership positions throughout the county, I think that is a fair question to at least consider”
Is just saying that the ND administration is racist. I will give you this, if this had been at a school in the south like Ole Miss- than I could possibly consider that reasoning… maybe.
I just don’t see that from a Catholic school or from the current adminstration. They wanted to win with character. Nothing more.
October 24, 2008 at 9:40 pmdomer.mq
Mark,
Given the paucity of minorities in leadership roles, maybe Saunders and Willingham should have discussed why Ty has never hired a black coordinator.
October 24, 2008 at 11:17 pmtrey
Subway, you say that, but did you ever think a Catholic university would be prudish and prohibitionists about beer at tailgates?
October 24, 2008 at 11:50 pmSubway Domer
Yes Trey, that doesn’t surprise me.
October 25, 2008 at 10:48 am