Before all you glass-half-full people get too too excited, I just want to remind you all how seriously, seriously young this Irish Football team is this year.
Last year, we were pretty much babies. Average age on the starting squad was like 3.
This year, we may be up to, oh, maybe 11 or 12. We're still TWEENS people! We like Miley Cyrus and have braces and have 'felt up' a girl or two. But that's it! We're not even high school age yet, people, and let's not forget it.
The 2-Deep was released, and the extreme levels of talent in the freshmen and sophomore classes is showing through big time. All in, we have 7 freshmen and 16 sophomores in the mix. On a team that's fully developed, in a program that isn't starting over from scratch, how many Frosh and Sophomores should be on that list? I don't know, maybe 4 or 5. And, at MAX, 1-2 should be starting. That's the reality in a program that wasn't recently decimated. What we have today is the reality of a program building from the bottom up, on a talent base that is still extremely young.
Should we see improvement over last year? Heck yeah. A lighter schedule, a better approach from C-dub, more cohesion in the team, more physical practices, no QB controversy...blah blah blah. Better? YES. But. BUT BUT BUT. We should all seriously temper our expectations here. This is a young team with a ton of 18 and 19 year old kids. Take a look at other elite programs (specifically the ones doing well recently), and see how many first and second year guys are in that two-deep. See how many are starting, and at key positions all over the field. Right, not close to as many.
This issue of age and inexperience won't last long - Charlie and co. are stocking this team with awesome recruiting year after year. But expect some more growing pains this year, as these young guys gain significant experience. Feel free to say what you want about what we 'should' do, or what Charlie 'has' to do for this year to be a success. Just think before you say it, and realize that the teams that went far last year, BCS, MNC, etc etc did it on the back of experienced talent.
Not just talent.
By domer.mq August 26, 2008 - 11:37 am
Lou said on TV that ND will win 11 games, so who’s the stupid head now?
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By The Biscuit August 26, 2008 - 12:08 pm
ha. i love lou. but lou’s insane optimism is just that, insane. someday he’ll be right. just not this year. god bless him and his wrongness though. love those glasses he wears – they must make things just look GOOD.
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By DeepTeaKup August 26, 2008 - 12:28 pm
Biscuit,
This reminds me of soemthing that should be added to the commandmants for this year. “Thou shalst always hedge thy bets” or “Thou shall make plentiful apologies for Weis’ inability to build a team”. This is Weis’ 4th year, that there are a lot of Frosh and Sophmores in the two deep is pretty much all on him at this point.
Also, CFB has changed a lot over the years. Frosh and Sophmores are expected to contribute much more than they used to.
That being said, I think ND can win 9-10 games this year, lots of talent in the two deep and a much more favorable schedule than last year. Not playing MSU at home does give ND at least a shot at beating the powerhouse from East Lansing.
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By The Biscuit August 26, 2008 - 1:03 pm
DTK – recruiting in the first year is generally tough. We have Juniors and Seniors that can/will contribute and (hopefully) lead. But people expecting an amazing 10 win season are ahead of themselves. And, the bulk of the talent is in those younger classes. It’s not on Weis that these young players are in the two deep. It’s on the Jrs and Srs for not being better. You could blame Weis for not recruiting as well those years, but that’s just circular.
Freshmen and sophomores contribute more today than in the past, but look at the teams that have done well over the past few years. They all tend to be very experienced. tOSU was an exception last year, and we saw that they were all smoke and mirrors and a weak big televen anyway. BC, on the other hand, was a “top 10 team”, on the backs of a bunch of service-able players that were all Seniors and 5th Years. Experience matters, today just as much as in the past. Young players in their 1st or 2nd year are meant to complement older more experienced players. They should be here and there. Not the other way around.
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By domer.mq August 26, 2008 - 1:15 pm
“Also, CFB has changed a lot over the years. Frosh and Sophmores are expected to contribute much more than they used to.”
Keep telling yourself that, Mr. I Cheer For A Team Returning 3 Starters on Offense.
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By DeepTeaKup August 26, 2008 - 1:27 pm
Domer, don’t worry I have plenty of anxiety about this year’s offense. In a way I tell (most likely fool) myself into thinking that it is better they are bringing in a lot of new players to go with the new system.
Biscuit, I agree with you to a certain except for “It’s on the Jrs and Srs for not being better”. A good program develops talent, CFB is not all about the x’s and o’s, you have to be able to develop players and I think the jury is still out on Weis’s ability to do that. Look at Weis’ first real recruiting class
http://notredame.scout.com/a.z?s=109&p=9&c=8&yr=2006
I don’t see a lot of real contributors there, do you?
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By domer.mq August 26, 2008 - 1:44 pm
DTK,
I don’t really agree with you there. I don’t think you can say we don’t see a lot of improvement from that class. A lot of that class is now in starting roles this year. Young, Wenger, and Stewart are now the “base” of the OL. Richardson, McNeil, Ryan, Schmidt, and Aldridge are all starters. A few more are on the 2-deep. And as Juniors, that’s just as you’d like to see a single class develop. So I think you’ll have to wait the season out before you can pass judgement on their development.
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By The Biscuit August 26, 2008 - 1:51 pm
Have you ever heard of Brady Quinn? The shark? Zibby? Laws? Carlson? right…no development there. Just a bunch of NFL dollars for undeveloped players. That’s a weak argument that people use to ensure that Weis gets blame for last year’s debacle. It’s too easy, too simple. He does deserve blame, but it’s not because of lack of development. How can you develop a bunch of freshmen early in their first year? You can’t. (and, one could argue that there was development given our 2-game win streak at the end of the season. but, i wouldn’t argue that given the competition).
And, in that class, I have definitely seen development. The guys that will play have developed significantly, and will be big contributors – Young (injured last year, you’ll see his true form this year), Stewart (starter, supposed big improvement over last year), Walls (would’ve been starter, and progressed a TON last year), Olsen/Wenger (big roles this year, supposed vast improvement over last year), McNeil (poised to start, supposed great improvement), Aldridge (serviceable back, potential starter)…there are a lot of ‘supposeds’ in there, but until we see how they do this year, how can we judge improvement/development?
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By Matt August 26, 2008 - 1:53 pm
OK someone needs to look through the 2-deep of some top 15 teams and compare the number of true frosh and sophs…I’m much too lazy.
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By UNDnut August 26, 2008 - 2:06 pm
We’re still carrying Gameboy cartridges in our fannypacks and having birthday parties at Skate Town. Being a “tween” stinks.
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By The Biscuit August 26, 2008 - 2:16 pm
Sounds like a job for Ftr Birdonnel’s minions. I did something last year, but it wasn’t fully comprehensive. More a contribution analysis on the frosh. Net result: ND was younger than everyone last year
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By The Biscuit August 26, 2008 - 2:30 pm
Here’s the link to, and a quick summary of, my old post. Some stats to back me up from it: 38% of ND’s playing time last year came from Frosh/Sophomores. ND had 30 returning lettermen last year – good for 117th out of 119 D-1 teams. ND had 101 starts by freshmen last year. Compare that to 26 in ’06. And 31, 57, 52, 15 and 19 going back from 2005 to 2001. On average, call it 30 or so. 101 last year vs. 30 on average for the 5 years prior. Any questions? Link to my brilliant post below.
http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2007/11/30/is-the-horse-dead-yet-yeah-okay-ill-keep-beating-it/#comments
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By DeepTeaKup August 26, 2008 - 4:17 pm
Biscuit, okay I’ll grant you maybe that Weis can develop Ty’s players.
Apologies guys, I think I’m just too excited for the season to begin and may be talking some garbage right now. I still think you guys make too many excuses for Weis but that is your perogative of course.
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By The Biscuit August 26, 2008 - 5:07 pm
It’s okay DTK. What would we be without you? Who is Beauty without the Beast? Who is Knute without Bo? In the end, all pristine shining lights and beacons of hope and purity need a sucky enemy to make them shine that much brighter. So, we thank you. (We’re not saying you suck, but that your school does – don’t want to offend or anything.)
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By Adam August 27, 2008 - 9:47 pm
I agree with this post mostly, but ND still has a lot of guys playing that went through the experience of last year. For example, Who is more prepared, the true sophomore who went through a whole season (minus some injuries), or a red-shirt junior who hasn’t taken a meaningful snap? Irish could get 8 if things go their way, I think they’ve done that much with less talented teams in the past.
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By Matt August 27, 2008 - 11:34 pm
Thanks, good stuff.
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By The Biscuit August 28, 2008 - 10:30 am
Adam, I agree that we’ll be more prepared this year than last. I’d say that it varies situation by situation as to who’d be more prepared. A red-shirt junior that spent time as an ‘understudy’ to an older/more experienced player, and that served as a back-up and played some on special teams/mop-up might actually be more prepared. That player has had someone to mentor him at his position. Someone to watch on the field and learn from. And learned in practice and on special teams and time playing as a back-up/substitute. Plus an extra year in the gym. Clearly our guys will be better prepared this year than last, but I don’t know that it’s a clear advantage over having a couple years as a back-up to learn. Example: watch Crist in 2-3 years, and see where he is when he starts, compared to where Jimmy was when he did. It’ll be night and day.
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