Comments on: Special Circumstances http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/ The Worst Thing To Ever Happen To ND Football Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:42:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: The Biscuit http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/comment-page-1/#comment-68525 The Biscuit Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:21:20 +0000 http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/#comment-68525 It's not really a matter of distance vs. height. It's a matter of power. A kicker can choose to kick higher or longer, essentially choosing where to put more of the power based on where/how he strikes the ball. Our guys probably only have the power to get the ball to the 10 or so, with decent hang time. So that's what they do. They could probably stretch to the 4-7 yard line, but the hang time will suffer. Or they could get great hang time and kick to the 15. So it's a tradeoff. In the end they have to hit the freaking gym and get more power in their leg. Otherwise, we're Sanson-ed. It’s not really a matter of distance vs. height. It’s a matter of power. A kicker can choose to kick higher or longer, essentially choosing where to put more of the power based on where/how he strikes the ball. Our guys probably only have the power to get the ball to the 10 or so, with decent hang time. So that’s what they do. They could probably stretch to the 4-7 yard line, but the hang time will suffer. Or they could get great hang time and kick to the 15. So it’s a tradeoff. In the end they have to hit the freaking gym and get more power in their leg. Otherwise, we’re Sanson-ed.

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]]> By: BJGator http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/comment-page-1/#comment-68509 BJGator Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:33:43 +0000 http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/#comment-68509 Hang time isn't a direct measure of success. However, a higher kick does confer the benefit of a shorter return distance. Perhaps the best way to measure the success of our kick-off unit is by net average. You do this, with minimal error, by computing average starting field position after kickoffs. The only error might come from penalties that forced them to kick from a spot other than the 30 yard line, although the effect is minimal because of the scarcity of such penalties and because they would probably balance out over a season (penalties can go both ways). The incontrovertible conclusion is that we sucked last year. Neither Charlie Weis nor Frank Beamer can scheme better kicks. Ultimately, it comes down to the players on the field, so personal improvement from whoever kicks off will be needed. It seems we need to get a lot better returning kicks as well. As for the high vs. long kick debate, I would sacrifice a bit of distance for a bit of hang time, if only to negate the play making ability of returners, which is a hallmark of the college game. Hang time isn’t a direct measure of success. However, a higher kick does confer the benefit of a shorter return distance. Perhaps the best way to measure the success of our kick-off unit is by net average. You do this, with minimal error, by computing average starting field position after kickoffs. The only error might come from penalties that forced them to kick from a spot other than the 30 yard line, although the effect is minimal because of the scarcity of such penalties and because they would probably balance out over a season (penalties can go both ways). The incontrovertible conclusion is that we sucked last year. Neither Charlie Weis nor Frank Beamer can scheme better kicks. Ultimately, it comes down to the players on the field, so personal improvement from whoever kicks off will be needed.
It seems we need to get a lot better returning kicks as well.

As for the high vs. long kick debate, I would sacrifice a bit of distance for a bit of hang time, if only to negate the play making ability of returners, which is a hallmark of the college game.

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]]> By: domer.mq http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/comment-page-1/#comment-68500 domer.mq Mon, 11 Aug 2008 05:56:35 +0000 http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/#comment-68500 Yeah, I just don't have data on that, but it's a good point. Still, if you look at the numbers, it seems like your ST life is a lot better if you're kicking it long rather than short, so, if I were picking teams, I'd pick the long kicker over the high one. Was it the PSU guy that drilled them thru the end zone all the time, but they essentially flew 10 feet in the air the entire distance? Yeah, I just don’t have data on that, but it’s a good point.

Still, if you look at the numbers, it seems like your ST life is a lot better if you’re kicking it long rather than short, so, if I were picking teams, I’d pick the long kicker over the high one.

Was it the PSU guy that drilled them thru the end zone all the time, but they essentially flew 10 feet in the air the entire distance?

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]]> By: The Biscuit http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/comment-page-1/#comment-68499 The Biscuit Mon, 11 Aug 2008 05:45:59 +0000 http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/#comment-68499 MQ, you miss one important (and not measured, so that's probably why you miss it) in your analysis - hang time. Kicking the ball to the 10 with a ~4 second hang time is just as good as/better than kicking it to the 4 with a 2.7 second hang time (the numbers are just random - for examples). Anyway, you know why - giving the team more time to get down the field and past their blockers means they're closer to the ball carrier when he catches, and therefore better positioned to make a stop. A kicker can kick the ball higher with more hang time, or longer with less. The best can do both, but we clearly don't have that problem. Anyway, the return yardage stat sort of covers this as you'd assume that a kicker with longer hang times would have shorter returns against him, but I just wanted to point out that the hang time portion is just as important as distance. MQ, you miss one important (and not measured, so that’s probably why you miss it) in your analysis – hang time. Kicking the ball to the 10 with a ~4 second hang time is just as good as/better than kicking it to the 4 with a 2.7 second hang time (the numbers are just random – for examples). Anyway, you know why – giving the team more time to get down the field and past their blockers means they’re closer to the ball carrier when he catches, and therefore better positioned to make a stop. A kicker can kick the ball higher with more hang time, or longer with less. The best can do both, but we clearly don’t have that problem. Anyway, the return yardage stat sort of covers this as you’d assume that a kicker with longer hang times would have shorter returns against him, but I just wanted to point out that the hang time portion is just as important as distance.

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]]> By: domer.mq http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/comment-page-1/#comment-68472 domer.mq Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:42:59 +0000 http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/#comment-68472 Yeah, Weis did meet with Beamer and yeah, he had also met with Richie Rich. I don't really, truly think that DickRod had anything to do with the ND Implosion of 2007. I don't think he sabotaged Weis. I think the whole concept of throwing in elements of the spread was a mistake for Weis. I do, however, think Weis is likely to learn more from Beamer, about both ST and coaching in general, than he could ever learn from Rich. Yeah, Weis did meet with Beamer and yeah, he had also met with Richie Rich. I don’t really, truly think that DickRod had anything to do with the ND Implosion of 2007. I don’t think he sabotaged Weis. I think the whole concept of throwing in elements of the spread was a mistake for Weis.

I do, however, think Weis is likely to learn more from Beamer, about both ST and coaching in general, than he could ever learn from Rich.

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]]> By: scott http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/comment-page-1/#comment-68470 scott Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:38:42 +0000 http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/#comment-68470 You'll excuse me if I don't share your optimism about him meeting w/Beamer to learn special teams. Didn't Charlie meet with DickRod last summer to learn the Spread to better utilize DJ? I'd love to look like a pessimistic idiot in a few months though... You’ll excuse me if I don’t share your optimism about him meeting w/Beamer to learn special teams. Didn’t Charlie meet with DickRod last summer to learn the Spread to better utilize DJ? I’d love to look like a pessimistic idiot in a few months though…

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]]> By: adam http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/comment-page-1/#comment-68453 adam Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:02:03 +0000 http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2008/08/10/special-circumstances/#comment-68453 It also bodes well for special teams that Charlie met with Virginia Tech HC/special teams guru Frank Beamer during the offseason. Hopefully the added emphasis and advice will translate to on-field improvement. It also bodes well for special teams that Charlie met with Virginia Tech HC/special teams guru Frank Beamer during the offseason. Hopefully the added emphasis and advice will translate to on-field improvement.

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