This morning on ESPN Radio's "Mike and Mike in the Morning," (I like the "white noise" while I work) the slight, geeky Mike challenged the large, former-football-playing Mike to name his 4 Notre Dame teammates that were drafted along with him in the 1985 draft. And that struck me a bit because Notre Dame wasn't very good in Mike Golic's time (It was the Faust-era, after all), but ND still managed to have 5 draftees in 1985. And then I wondered what sort of correlation, if any, exists between success on the field and the number of draftees you have on the field. In other words, does the number of players that will be drafted in the next draft matter to the success of your team?
The obvious answer is, of course, yes. The more draftees you have, the more talent you must have, and thus you're probably going to be better than if you have very few draftees. Thing is, Notre Dame had a few draftees on the roster in 2007 (4), but still managed to win only 3 games. Golic's ND team won 7 games in 1984 despite just one more player on the roster to eventually be drafted the following spring. Maybe success on the field isn't so obviously correlated with NFL-level talent on the field after all.
For fun, I took a look at the win totals of Notre Dame for each season from 1977 to 2007, and then compared that to the number of players drafted the following season from Notre Dame. And I was sort of surprised by what I found.
First, here are the raw numbers for each season in Wins, Number of Draftees the following spring, Number of 1st Rounders, and Number of 1st-3rd Rounders.
And here's a graph to visualize the data...
(You may need to click on the chart to enlarge it.)
As you can see from the correlation calculations in the spreadsheet, while there is a "moderate" correlation between success on the field and NFL-level talent, it's not very strong (Perfect correlation would be indicated by +1, while perfect negative correlation would be indicated by -1).
Observations That Sound Interesting Anyway:
- Let's say that at Notre Dame, if you win 7 or fewer games in a season, you've had a terrible season. That happened 14 times from 1977 to 2007 (1979. 1981-1986, 1994, 1997, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2004, and 2007). Some will argue with my definition of "terrible," but, as we like to say in the halls of HLS Central, "This is freaking Notre Dame." In those 14 seasons, Notre Dame averaged 4 players on the roster drafted the following year. In the "acceptable" or better seasons (8+ wins), Notre Dame averaged 7 such players.
- In the years studied, Weis, still a bit of an enigma as far as performance as HC goes, has managed to have the lowest season-total of wins per NFL draftee in 2007 (.75) and yet also have the only "acceptable or better" season with 3 or fewer NFL draftees in 2005 (3.0 wins per draftee).
- In seasons from 1977-2007 in which the Irish were at some point ranked in the top 5, Notre Dame averaged 6.67 NFL draftees on the roster.
- In those Top 5 seasons (18 in total), there was an average of 1.06 first rounders on the roster, but in about 1/3rd of the seasons, there were no first rounders on the roster. And, in fact, each of those 5 draft classes with 0 first rounders were followed up by draft classes with no more than 1 first rounder. Those 5 rosters also only had an average of 2 players drafted in the first 3 rounds in the next spring, but they still managed to average 7 overall draftees. So does the draft position really matter?
- That average number of draftees after an "acceptable or better" season (7)? That's only 1 fewer than the total number of seniors on ND's 2007 roster (8). Think about that for a moment.
So yeah, we didn't learn much aside from some trivia. Talent helps. It probably helps a lot, but it doesn't guarantee anything one way or another.
By Jim Kearns July 11, 2008 - 7:27 am
You should check the total number of players drafted off a team, not just the number drafted at the end of the season; the ’78 Joe Montana National Champs were loaded with Juniors – Montana himself, for instance. That, or at least the number drafted in the next two drafts, would be a better measure. Jim Kearns
Thumbs Up/Down:
0
0
By domer.mq July 11, 2008 - 8:54 am
I knew I’d get into trouble for not spelling this out: I figured you’re not “NFL ready” if you aren’t drafted in the very next draft. You might be incredibly talented relative to college players around the country, but if you didn’t get drafted the very next spring, even if you were a junior, then you weren’t “NFL ready.” At least as far as this quick study is concerned.
Besides, it’s pretty easy to look at the chart above and cull the data you’re talking about.
Thumbs Up/Down:
0
0
By The Biscuit July 11, 2008 - 10:56 am
First of all, we have halls? Why they hell don’t I get to walk them, smoking a cigar and saying “Get out of my way, kid” to the intern?
Second, .62 is actually pretty high. As a data/stats guy, that’s a pretty meaningful correlation. While 1 is perfect, 1 will never happen. Hell, .8 is extremely unlikely. There are so many other factors that can influence an outcome (wind, weather, health, home/away, quality of competition, etc.) that a .62 is actually high. So anyway, I dig the analysis, and just thought I’d put my 2 cents in on the conclusion.
Thumbs Up/Down:
0
0
By domer.mq July 11, 2008 - 12:56 pm
I should have e-mailed you about the correlation. I used Pearson’s R, and then I couldn’t remember at what point I get to start saying it’s a “high correlation.” I thought it was at + .7.
What was the name of our stats prof? That guy hated me.
Thumbs Up/Down:
0
0
By domer.mq July 11, 2008 - 1:03 pm
Yes, and didn’t I always say there would be a “Q Hall?” Well, now there is. And it’s really long.
Thumbs Up/Down:
0
0
By The Biscuit July 11, 2008 - 1:34 pm
There’s not really a rule in practical application. In some scenarios, a .3 is high. The more factors that can determine an outcome, the lower the threshold for saying it’s important. Say there are 100 factors. You’d say that anything above .01 is above an individual factors’ ‘share’ of causality. So .02 would be ‘high’. That’s a ludicrous example and not true to life at all, but you get what I mean.
Stats profs know nothing about practical use. And I had 3 at ND. Only 1 didn’t suck.
Thumbs Up/Down:
0
0
By Her Loyal Sons » ND Needs to Get A Bit More Draftee February 28, 2009 - 10:09 pm
[...] in July of 2008, I took a look at correlation between on-field success of every ND team from 1977 through 2007 and the numbe… the following year. And after Biscuit corrected me (he has an MBA, you know), I learned that [...]
Thumbs Up/Down:
0
0
By Her Loyal Sons » You’re So Predictable: 2010 Irish Draftees July 30, 2009 - 12:41 pm
[...] of the ND vs. Opposition Draft, coupled with this post over on UHND, reminded me of this post we did a year ago looking at draft talent in ND’s upper classes and this post from this past spring looking at the poor state of draftable players on the 2008 [...]
Thumbs Up/Down:
0
0